As for Sim. Give me back super Sim and I’m a happy man.
From Vanilla to Super they buffed Sims damage slightly while nerfing almost everyone elses Because they thought you should be rewarded more for correctly reading your opponent. That is basically exactly what they said in the Notes from Vanilla to super.
What changed? Sim didn’t by any means dominate in super He had bad match ups with Rufus, Viper, Abel and Cammy. Dominating characters don’t have that many bad match ups. Why Nerf him while adding another ridiculously bad match up via Yun.
I’m all about just buffing the cast that needs it while keeping the others the same save a few slight nerfs here and there if needed.
What people seem to misunderstand is that, with the exception of Fei, the returning cast match up very well with each other. It simply doesn’t make sense to try and buff the rest when only three upset the balance. It’s a little hard to balance all characters by making them ridiculously good in a relatively high health/low damage game like SF4 as well.
To those who want Fei/Yun/Yang to remain as is, tell me how you would buff a character like Dhalsim so that they can even begin to compete and without making him completely domineering in his already good matchups.
You’re right. It’d make it less offensive. But its still the long route out. The point I’m trying to make is that the top chars have tremendous mixup and tremendous dmg. The optimum strategy of this game is to get into someones face and make them guess until they die. The top chars also have VERY good ways to get in on a person. The end result of this is that chars that relied on keeping you out one way or the other are basically lost. You COULD buff them in a way that works. I have no idea what that’d look like for Sim/Guile. Fireballs would have to improve in usability, their hitboxes would have to be vastly improved. Which would make chars who also rely on offense weaker. Unless you buff them. In which case…OR. You could restrict the tops ability to make you guess so readily. I always felt that SF was based around a certain archetype. If you throw fireballs you shouldn’t be an offensive monster. If you’re an offensive beast you should have to work to get in. There should be a TRADE OFF of some kind. Instead you wanna make everyone better, which I think would go much further in homogenizing the cast.
JUST A SMALL EDIT: I do wanna say my biggest gripe with the game as is is ambiguous cross ups. They do too much dmg and as said they’re flat guesses. Why is it when wolverine does it everyone cries for it to be removed. When Seth/Viper/Yun are flooring you left and right people cheer. DOES NOT GET IT.
Have trouble getting in, but once they’re there be able to do tons of damage. Or
Get in easily, but get small chunks of damage each time.
This whole “Get in easily, be able to say there, do tons of damage, AND maintain pressure” stuff is bullshit, at least in THIS game, looking at the design philosophy as a whole. That’s just my opinion though.
excellent point, but sim is a polarizing character. for the most part he either keeps a character out, or they get in and kill him. his matchups are almost dictated completely by how easy a character can get in, and the strength of their close game once they get there. hes kind of an exception that needs dmg buffs relative to the strength of the entire cast.
all characters buffed=dmg up
all characters nerfed=dmg down
that would be my best guess anyway.
but i agree with you. making every character beefy would be a mess IMO. the way i look at it 37 characters are working pretty well in their interactions with each other. theres exceptions that lose to a lot of the other 36, and they need help. but i think if the top 2 get corrected, and with small changes to the characters that need it, we’d have the best possible version of sf4
I agree with the sentiment others have expressed: the problem isn’t Fei excelling in multiple areas, the problem is that many other characters no longer excel at what they’re supposed to in the first place.
AE Sim is fine. He builds meter well enough for them to lower his Super move. Still does good damage off Ultra 1 juggle. His damage not getting touched from SF4 was pretty huge compared to everyone else dropping 15-20% in overall damage. Faster b+MK and EX-Yoga Flame with slightly lowered damage as a trade off.
Guile’s AE meter off sonic boom is more reasonable. Before it was just dumb… shorter sonic boom charge, ridiculous meter. The amount of EX Sonic booms compared to EX hadoukens or whatever were just staggering. His specials are basic but still very strong even after AE reductions. Look at how Dieminion is still destroying fools at Guard Crush.
edit: My biggest hope is that they just tweak back up some of the key normals each character really utilizes back up 15-20% in damage. Everyone should be petitioning for more damage. I don’t feel EVERYONE needs to get it in AE rebalancing though. They’ll screw the game up even more.
A lot of people have been saying that balance should be restored to Super’s balance, more or less. Super was, in my view, better than AE, but lets not forget that Super – along with AE – still has some very, very bad match ups, and many regular old just-plain-bad match ups, and these still ought to be fixed by a balance patch.
Capcom ought to work seriously hard at making this game as balanced as possible, and not leave open any glaring loose ends. All 7-3s and worse have to be fixed. All 6-4s should be addressed as much as possible.
I’m pretty sure there’s more bad match ups in Super than in AE without twins. I don’t even feel the twins are that bad now seeing people blow Daigo up. There were not a lot of other Yun’s making it out into top 32. That shows a lot.
So the whole Super being more balanced than AE is kind of a fallacy.
You will have more useless characters if you restore the balance in AE back to Super IMO
I’ll give a quick list of characters that I feel are a shadow of their selves in Super compared to AE changes.
Deejay
Makoto
Juri
Hakan
Guy
T.Hawk
Dudley
Gen
Vega
Seth
Cody
Ryu
Sakura
Which except for Makoto has caused an overwhelming rush straight to those chars.
Wait.
Wait.
They’re allllllllmost hereeeee…
oh they fell over a skateboard. They were soooo close D:
No one’s saying null all the changes. There is a bit of evidence to suggest that AE is perhaps. Slightly. More. Top. Heavy. Than. Super. The top in that game were prime examples of their archetypes. Perhaps a bit too strong, but still suffered when paired against type. Compare and Contast mmm?
Make blanka’s FP blanka ball like it was in vanilla sf4. Add more damage to his attacks. EX up ball is a knockdown!!! More hit stun on his standing strong punch allowing for better combo’s. Faster roundhouse sweep and crouching FP. CvS2 ground shave super recovery. The ability to focus out of a blanka ball from across the screen like YUN can with his lunge punch attack.
uh no. All AE did for Vega was make it easier for players to hold down back. Sure he may be stronger fundementally (not by much really), but that shit isn’t even close to being as good as having great mix ups and momentum based offense which he had in Super coupled with decent frame traps and an already profiecient spacing game. This isn’t SF2, its SF4 where mix ups and momentum mater more than fundementals. Combine all three and you have fei.
Fei is the only exception to this because he has a great AA, a great horizontal move which controls space, functional normals with actual hit boxes that lead into corner with great damage, frame traps that are easy to do and lead to things, great wake up games, and easy chip pressure which can only be punished by Vega.
In short he has everything needed to play the spacing game. Which Vega lacks in the SF4 series.
If Vega functioned the way a spacing character should work (Fei) then id agree with you but he doesn’t, and this EVO has showed more than ever that Vega’s most consistent and prevalent issue’s are hurting him now more than ever.
He seems pretty damned invincible to Gouken, especially when he keeps grabbing the old man on wake up.
Gouken needs viable wake-up options, hit confirms off of lights or mediums, better back dash (he is a zone character), overhead properties on flip kick but keep the flip kick angle and speed the same as it is now, EX tatsu hits crouching.
There wasn’t much change to Fei since Vanilla, not significant enough to affect his gameplay nor his strength. Remember Fei got inifinite against some characters, but removed in later version, theres buff and nerfs.
The tier is always based on popularity and top players performance, and there were better characters in SF4 like Sagat and Akuma who outshine current top tier like Fei, Viper (and Cammy). Cammy got nerfed in AE largely because of Sako’s performance in Godsgarden. She wasn’t top tier before. Same thing happens to FeiLong, Mago used him to win Godsgarden and he suddenly becomes top tier. Of course, many other characters got nerfed in AE.
So people shouldn’t take the tier too serious, and should discuss focus on how to buff weak characters like Hakan.
I had always thought it was funny how everyone threw a hissy fit about Yun and very few complained about Fei. Logic didn’t add up for me. Then I realized that Fei didn’t have a divekick, probably the only reason people didn’t say anything.
Everytime I fight a good Fei it sucks, because you are on his watch the entire match. He is such a bully. Four seconds and your in the corner? Yay :tup:
I still hope that Capcom takes the approach of buffing the weaker instead of just continually to nerf the better.