oh man wow. this post was too good.
This is why Capcom should never ever ever get balance advice from anyone.
Yep, that’s what he is, he’s a mixup character. In Vanilla and/or Super, he was a mixup character that randomly had stupidly good zoning tools (jump hp sniper, fireball-ultra1 trap), fooling people who didn’t understand him into thinking he should be played defensively. He’s a mixup character, and the only two players to ever be good with him have always played him like that. Now he has the extra damage, health, and stun bar to make that really count (oh and by the way, better fireballs and better st mk). OnlineTony and Poongko both prefer AE Seth.
???
Again, I don’t want to nerf Seth. I think all that needs to be done to balance him out is buff up the characters he lost to in Super but were nerfed to hell for no reason in AE, and that should act as a good check. But recognize that he’s one of the few characters, only somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen, that are really relevant in AE tournament play. I’m not even talking tiers. Straight up, somewhere between 3/4 and 7/8 of this game’s cast is irrelevant.
Here are the characters that got top 8 in AE:
Yun: spacing is almost irrelevant, I get where I want (in your face) and make you guess
Viper: spacing is almost irrelevant, I get where I want (in your face) and make you guess
Seth: spacing is almost irrelevant, I get where I want (in your face) and make you guess
Fei: trying to space me is almost impossible, I get where I want (at mid range) and make you guess
Akuma: I’m a real character!
Gief: what am I doing here? trust me, switch over to Viper instead
I feel like Viper and Seth can be controlled largely by un-nerfing their bad matchups. But Fei and Yun? Those characters need to be controlled.
I’ve reached a point where I’ve accepted that my hands prevent me from playing seriously or even messing with characters that have complex executional requirements. If you saw my match against Hiro Gouken on stream, you saw that I couldn’t even do fierce xx fierce dragon punch, the most basic combo of all time. And believe me, there was a ton of less obvious stuff that my hands just decided not to listen to me on. It sucks, but… that’s the card I’ve been dealt, and I try not to complain too much about it.
Dan reminds me that I can’t play seriously. I like that he looks ridiculous, since I feel ridiculous in comparison to how I could play a couple years ago. He also has the minimum execution requirements possible within the context of the SF4 engine. At the same time, he can actually play, and while he isn’t great, he can get me a few wins here and there. Honestly I feel like he’s the perfect character for someone in my situation.
I think the largest problem with Fei is the simple fact from mid range most characters just can’t beat out his normals. They are so fast for the great range they have. I noticed at Evo that many of the Fei players I played would mash jab after blocking a s.HK from Akuma. Because nothing Akuma had could beat it except for LP.SRK and that was only viable with two bars. If you tried to c.MP you would lose because the Jab has more speed, if you tried to jab you would lose because you were out of range, and everything else was too slow and would get hit out of start up. Not to say I was completely helpless in defeating it, but I felt the amount of work I was having to do to beat it was small incomparison to the amount of work the Fei player was having to do beat my pokes.
Even against Bison I didn’t have this much trouble beating his pokes.
About Seth’s j.hp, why would capcom remove something and then put it back? Have they done it in previous games? If not it’s a waste of time asking for that kind of stuff, think about something else.
Ryu’s trade lp dp?
You’re looking at this the wrong way. It is NOT a problem with FEI LONG. But simply other characters need to be brought up if that was even the case at all.
This is what I am talking about, 90% of the people chiming in on this thread have no idea what they’re talking about when they’re asking for balance changes. LOL
Stay free.
Fei frustrates the living hell out of me. Its almost impossible to counter poke him and if you whiff moves looking for it he can actually rekka the whiff. CRAZINESS. And if he botches the guess, well…its safe anyway. And he pushed you slightly more to the corner. Talk about win win. This combined with his far ranging +normals and it creates a midscreen pressure guess, will he/ won’t he that at least makoto really just has to BD from and try again.
I really wanna say rekkas need to have something done to them[I’d suggest hitbox reduction] but he really is the quintessential footsie char so it strikes me as a bit of a slippery slope to nerf his best footsie tool… I’d also want to reduce his frame advantage so that if he tries a rekka you can at least jump it, but that would weaken them significantly. I honestly don’t know. /Most useless post in this thread. At the min I’d say dmg should go down I guess.
All the complaining about nerfing has brought the damage in the game to where it is right now, which is kinda pitifully low for a good portion of the cast.
or how about you just get better.
yea, and it also made characters that were previously fun in other iterations boring as shit.
I seriously hate how %75 of the cast in this game can’t punish mistakes for shit. And I don’t want Fei Long, Makoto, Viper, Yun and other high damage characters to just have their damage output nerfed for the sake of balance. That would be lame as hell. I’d much rather they’d make other characters’ damage high enough that their isn’t this disparity.
I don’t know what to say to this. I don’t even know what its supposed to mean in the purview of this thread. Is the implication perhaps that the game is totally fine as is and thus why bother rebalancing at all? Just get better. Can’t seem to get out of 4 way mixups? Shit man. You shoulda been better. Blocked a rekka and couldn’t do anything[Except get CH]? Maybe your grandpa was better, but I’m just not seeing it in you…
I certainly do try to get better. And at 50 cents a play too. Obviously I’m gonna keep playing, so what makes you think I’m not trying? And how do you get to complain when you play Yang? I play one of the best chars so…maybe you should get better at the game? I don’t get it. Its like if I played Gill and its like. Don’t worry man. Its cool. If you just hit me more you’ll win. DON’T WORRY SO MUCH G.
What you guys need to do is spam Ono with tweets to buff everyones damage back up about 10-15%.
You have normals that did like 80 to 120 in vanilla… doing 65 to 100 now. What the shit yo. Those are close to 20% drops in general. if they don’t want the damage that high, get it back up another 10-15%… somewhere in the median. That’d be the perfect tweak. Look at sim. SSF4 Sim still had SF4 damage. Then AE came and brought him down a bit to level up with everyone else. Sim can still do damage, he just has to work slightly more. Maybe an extra fierce or two to close out the matches but so many of his fierces come off counter hits and snipes that it just doesn’t break the character in the long run. So many people made it out that he’s unusable and this and that. It’s just a crock of shit.
More concentration on buffing normals over specials is where I’d go. I feel most ultra damage is sitting firmly in a good spot at around 420-490 full. Majority of supers deal 350 raw I believe.
It’s kind of silly people keep asking for more frame advantage on certain moves. That’s even worse than buffing damage really. Chun’s c.LP on block is a friggin +2 or +3 and it comes out in 3f. If people started asking for more stuff like that it would make hers trivial and make a ton of the cast just ridiculously throw happy and rely too much on these kind of things which will deter the gameplay away from other aspects against characters with no good reversals. Imagine the anarchy online with the lag. Brb throwing you to death.
It’s not that bad. People aren’t even going to the lengths to time each other out that hard here in America and Japan anymore.
Well, they definitely cannot punish it online 75% of the time. Offline you definitely can. The difference here is just which characters just require a little more work or less to deal them.
No, it’s definitely a problem with Fei. Fei doesn’t have to be good everywhere on screen. He has the most advantageous and fewest disadvantageous positions of any character in any iteration of SF4. He’s fine standing at max range, mid range, or up close; he can get in, he can keep out; he can play mixups, he can play footsies, he can play defense, he can escape; and so on. That’s poor character design. If a character is gonna have options everywhere, they can’t all be awesome ones.
I dunno exactly what I’d do for Fei, there are too many good options. Do you keep his offense capabilities and nerf defensive ones, or the other way around? I hope Capcom decides to keep his good offensive options, but it’s hard to know.
For sure I’d nerf ex chicken wing, though. It’s one of the most brainless moves in the game, it’s good on defense and as a way to get in. Imo make it projectile invincible only, not hit or throw invincible on startup at all. Maybe lk chicken wing can be invincible to hit on startup instead; it’s unsafe on block and doesn’t move that for, so it’d be usable defensively and for moving forward (if you really think it’s gonna work!), just not super good.
I’m down with buffing a lot of damage back up in general, though.
i don’t see how me playing a character that isn’t an POS like 80% of the roster have anything to do with this debate. i’m just saying you’re complaining about shit when makoto has it better than most of the cast. the victory may noy be handed to you easy, but she is more than capable.
I think they should balance everyone upward to where Fei is. He’s kind of like the jack of all trades but master of none in a sense. He’s good, but why not just make everyone else just as good. Capcom has made some questionable decisions on nerfing normals in SSF4. Didn’t understand why Bison c.MK got lowered by like 5 measly damage. Roundhouse I kinda get it. Just taking the tip of the foot’s damage down to 80 probably alleviated 20 match ups in the game where a lot of characters have bad jump in normals and don’t stuff it normally. Just a small change trickling down the pipes in a big way.
Sprinkle a little more damage to some frequent normals some characters rely on, specials, whatever. I wouldn’t necessarily change the frame properties too much though. Very tiny crucial moves perhaps. Nothing that the characters would have and use very frequent like fireballs, rekkas, scissor kicks and what have you.
Yeah because after having to block both hits of your fs.hk he should even have to be frame trapped for free. Come on, I always think I’ve heard them all, then I log to srk and always get surprised.
Fei has really good normals, but you chose the WORST POSSIBLE example to demonstrate it. I think Fei players are way more upset about not being able to duck akuma’s fs.hk than you are about not having to press buttons afterwards.
Lol Hey maybe you should be a little less quick on the trigger and actually see if what I am saying is true.
First of all I never called for a nerf, learn to read. I was simply stating that Fei’s normals are really good because they have both range and speed. Am I wrong in this observation? Fei’s normals outclass most of the characters in the game.
Go into training mode and see what I am talking about. Set a dummy to do Akuma’s c.MP (Which is one of his better mid range pokes) and walk to the edge of it’s hitbox without actually getting hit. Then perform Fei’s Jab. You will notice it out ranges c.MP easily and yet comes out in 3 frames. So in the Akuma Fei match up after a blocked s.HK you can’t go for c.MP because Fei will win 100% of the time if he presses his button at the same time. You can do the same thing with c.LK as well. Both of Fei’s crouching lights will beat out Akuma’s c.MP. This basically means that even if you successfully force Fei to block a s.HK you have little to no follow up because his can just mash jabs and be relatively safe about it. Against Akuma’s c.MK, Fei’s c.MP beats that clean.
Now being out ranged is nothing new for Akuma. There are several of his match ups where the opponent has better range on their normals. The Bison match up being a classic example. The problem becomes that Akuma’s best counter poke, c.HK, is not viable in the Fei match up because a blocked sweep is a free set of Rekkas. That poke combined with his walk speed was what largely allowed Akuma to get around better pokes since he could bait and sweep to start up his vortex. Against Fei that doesn’t happen.
Now I will say Akuma, Fei is not the worst match up. In fact if Akuma gets the knockdown Fei is free as hell to the vortex. I am just saying that there is a reason Fei’s ground pressure is so good. His Rekka pressure is only half of it. The other half is that his normals cover a large amount of space quickly.
Akuma’s normals have never been crappy. In fact most would agree he has some of the better normals in the game when combined with his walking speed. It’s just that Fei’s are THAT good. You could try to buff everyone’s normals to compensate, but at the same time you will be radically changing the game.
I hope Capcom don’t take srk seriously. There are people here just want to buff their favorite characters and nerf those they don’t like or have troubles with. There are many ignorant replies in this threads.