I think that Viper, Akuma, Ken, Makoto, Sagat, and maybe a couple others are fine as is.
Fei, Yun, and Yang can use some small nerfs, but nothing too major. Just tone down the retarded crap and you should be fine.
Their non-ex kicks are 5 frames. Their EX are 4 frames.
Who else in the game besides the shotos has a 4f reversal with one bar?
Not many, but a few do exist. Guy comes to mind. His normal Tatsus are slow while his EX is 4 frames. Deejay is the same way.
Blanka.
All up balls.
My intention was to keep make the point that they really don’t need to be nerfed. Adding the possibility of buffing them would get a “nerf” if it didn’t happen. But your point is noted. I’ll change the wording in the main post.
for all the people who feel yang needs some sort of nerfs, i would like to know exactly what it is that ya’ll would want nerfed. because so far i’ve seen specific changes for yun but when people mention yang they’ll either say “minor” nerfs or he just need “tuning”. it just seems like people want him nerfed just because of his brother or because he’s an actual complete character that isn’t half assed like juri or dudley.
So who would play normal ryu after your changes? lol.
well his palms should build less meter, do less damage and have less active frames (yun should get the same treatment). I also got the feeling that his rekkas are way safer than fei lonmg’s and that should also be changed to be in line with him.
frame advantage on blocked s.lp is ridiculous.
Other than that, he is fine
Also I’d personally like to see the range on his rolling kicks reduced slightly.
It’s been mentioned before, but definitely return Zangief’s Ex-hand to Super or vanilla status. Return SPD to Super or vanilla status to balance this out.
I guess neither of you read my previous post saying only shotos have 3f reversals, only charge characters have 4f reversals, while everyone else has 5f or slower reversals.
So far it seems only Yun, Yang, and Guy are exceptions to this.
Yang’s EX Up Kicks aren’t a reversal.
Only his Light Senkyutai has full invincibility. All the other ones (including EX) only have projectile invincibility. If you’re throwing a fireball, and I’m in a reversal situation, A) you’re gonna get hit regardless of that one-frame difference you’re looking for, 99% of the time, and B) you’re probably not at point blank anyway, in which case, Yang has to roll to the opponent first, so it’s not 4 or 5 frames anyway… more like 10+.
People should stop suggesting stuff about Yang, based on how they feel about Yun. “The Twins”, as a collective don’t exist. It’s a myth. They are very different characters, with very different tools.
Ok, so I was wrong about Yang then. Apologies.
Why? He is completely hittable by any normal during his rolling. The further he has to roll the easier it is for me to punish. I haven’t tried throwing him out of his rolls though…
Gonna try that tonight 
A couple of changes that I’d like Oni to have…
- LP Slam to be safe on block
- FADC Shoryuken on block
- More stamina
And most important… - Give him those EX Air Dashes!
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I think the balancers should put that on a post-it and stick it to their monitor. While you can’t ever control the variables of personal preference and skill, I’d like to see the characters placing in tournaments to be as varied as possible. I can’t think of anything more boring than a character good enough to be picked just for being very viable. If such a character exists then that means there are other characters who are bad enough to avoid picking just because they’re unviable.
This whole “deal with the imbalance” mentality makes no sense. We don’t have to anymore, and that’s a good thing. Sure enough there is ignorance abounding when people make suggestions for adjustments, and there’s something to be said for waiting for the chips to settle for a game in order to figure out which character is truly good, but I think if there is a blatant top tier in the game and you can stop it from dominating the game you should do so. In the long run it will keep the game fresh.
It’s one reason I won’t be buying 3SO. They went for arcade ‘perfection’, which is another way of saying they don’t want to touch a work of art (the balancing, however crappy) and thus aiming for actual perfection. There are a lot of people who like things as they are, just because they don’t like things changing. It has nothing to do with balance–if 3S had been earth-shatteringly balanced from the beginning they’d doltishly worship that aspect of the game equally is much.
You might tell me I’m spoiled but as I said, we don’t have to deal with it these days. So if you’re telling me and to deal with it, and answer that you deal with the modern age, and I’ll go and vote with my wallet when I don’t like the balance on something. Thanks to the internet we can burn a hole in their pocket far more effectively over balance goofs, and we should use the power. Until CAPCOM say “We’re never going to make adjustments anymore, take our games as they come” it is now the right way to think.
I disagree with your premise overall… but even if I did believe that balance was so damn important, I still disagree with the kneejerk patching.
Say whatever you want about a “blatant” top tier… again… the game’s young. The “blatant” top tier in the first year of the last generation of games were all overcome. Some were made almost totally obsolete. You have to give time for player ingenuity. Robbing us of that, is a huge issue. It’s the best part of playing these games.
Having Capcom spoonfeed us answers to the riddles good characters impose on us, is patronizing, honestly. As a thinking individual, you should want to rise to the challenge of learning to deal with strength… not whine for it to be removed.
Give Yun a resurrection Ultra…like Gill…
I hate to point this out, but I feel I should. I’m not sure about this being a general consensus. I remembered it being a pretty split issue, so I went back to check on the previous posts, and this is what I found from posts that specifically mention Viper in them:
Since I’m not sure what Surenio’s feelings were on nerfing, I added it as a possible point for both the “Keep as is” side, and the “Nerf/Change” side.
She is fine as is: 9 or 8
Nerf/Change: 9 or 10
There are some posts that don’t mention specifics, just generally want changes or not to different degrees. But either way this doesn’t look like a general concensus to me, but very much a split issue. And the discussion will keep going I’m sure. The reason why Viper got so many Keep posts that might stick out is probably because she got a lot of Change posts as well. So people are discussing her. And when the discussion is going, a lot of different opinions will be heard.
Personally I don’t think it’s a good idea to present one opinion as the general consensus unless that standpoint is overwhelmingly over represented. Unfortunately, top tier characters, and especially those with a very strong pressure game/mixups will usually always be the subject of debate.
If the opinions often differ, I think I would sum it up as: Take a look at this character, Capcom, and see if anything should be done or not.
For characters that mostly get suggestions for buffs or changes, I’d take a look at the most commonly mentioned ones.