VIPER IS FINE AS SHE IS.
Caps for extra point-making power.
I’d rather see her deleted from the game, but that’s probably a little drastic. Maybe we can convince Ono to nerf all of the mixup characters to Fuerte tier instead. They’d still be annoying as fuck, but at least they wouldn’t melt your health bar when you pick the wrong number on the roulette wheel.
Not sure why we have two threads of these, but I guess I’ll repeat it here:
- Make Ibuki’s ultra 2 fully combo 100% of the time. As of now, it can randomly drop like half the time when trying to use it to reaction punish fireballs and other things.
- Make tsumuji kicks fully combo 100% of the time. I’m thinking it’s a hitbox issue.
- Make TC4 always fully combo on hit on crouchers. Being a combo that is meant to force stand, it seems kind of dumb it should whiff on certain crouching characters at certain ranges (such as the shotos).
- Make TC4 , st.LP link all the time. Right now it can randomly whiff on characters like Ken and Rose for whatever hitbox reason.
- Make Hien knockdown on hit or something. I don’t know why I should be punished for hitting my opponent. Right now this move is punishable by most of the cast on hit unless I cancel into super to keep it safe.
- Make tsujigoe useful, somehow. I’ve been maining Ibuki since day 1 super and I have yet to find a use for this thing.
Also please fix other wonky hitbox issues, like Elf’s f+MK unblockable on Ibuki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xL3E5_JO8Q or Yun’s shoulder going through opponents (not the cross under lp shoulder reset): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KIYfDkcBE or Yun’s cr.HK trade into free combo, and etc. If Yun gets this glitch, then maybe Ibuki should too. Also don’t forget to fix Yang’s invincible wakeup glitch!
There’s probably even more hitbox issues with Ibuki that I haven’t mentioned yet.
the reason akuma is good in ae because of the nerf to the super character bad matchup (cammy,honda,boxer,chun,ryu,guile). he was ranked 13th in japanese tier list in super.
super guile imo was a tough matchup for akuma because guile can really play his keep away flawlessly giving akuma no chance to vortex. watch aceirin vs tokido for reference.
but ae guile damage nerf and meter build nerf makes him flawed in a way that akuma is more likely to get in and start the vortex.
imo either give him meter build from 20/20 to 15/20 and slight increase in U2 dmg maybe 300 to 350 not sure abt the numbers.
just keep akuma the way he is. and buff the ones that are weaken back to almost super status.
eg. if honda is back to super status majority player would complain honda having too many 6-4 due to raw dmg he can do. so some tweaks are necessary.
just buff the weak character back to close to super status. reason being
if guile meter build is 20/20. scrubs gonna throw ex sonic boom for free sagats gonna cry. hence 15/20.
if ryu gets cmk back. scrubs gonna stay in corner doing their trademark jump back hk and c.mk ex fireball. (though i reckon ryu needs this)
sakura on the other hand is actually strong since she actually got buffed in ae. she seems weak only because of Hongkong characters is destroying her badly. so is chun-li cannot deal with twins at all.
imo if chun-li is gonna receive any buff make sure its done properly. this one character has such good normal, good grab, dumb-ass projectile, good 3fr c.lk into bloody ex kicks that she’s gonna wreck havoc if she gets raw dmg boost because imo that’s the only think she lacks. she’s tier 1 in footsie with her normal and also tier 1 in zoning with those fast jumping AA and stupid fast recovery projectile. so tweak her properly else she’s surely gonna be no1 in the game with the S tier go down.
i hope the new balance is gonna be made properly. any wrong buff is either gonna create a new breed of turtlemonster or overpowered rushdown machine. and any wrong nerf is gonna make the character unplayable. and make sure scrubs don’t have easy time, this game is out almost 5 years? already i don’t want to see scrubs still having fun doing vanilla sagat 160dmg dp while we work so hard trying to get in.
sry my english isn’t my main and i’m not sending out my points out clearly. hope you guys can understand what i am saying.
Guile: give back his airthrow, backfist damage, boom avantage on block, and flashkick damage. give him back half his boom meter gain. buff his regular throw.
Yun: nerf hitbox on standing medium punch, reduce health by 50, reduce length of genei jin by 20%, take 2 active frames from palm and add those to recovery frames instead, ex lunge -1 on block, reduce meter gain across the board by 10%
Yang: take 2 active frames from palm and add those to recovery frames instead, reduce meter gain across the board by 10%
fei long: take 10-20 damage off his flame kicks and chicken wings
zangief: reduce range on his light grab by 10-15%
some other characters might need buffs, but i dont think any other nerfs should be given. not even to viper, she is absolutely fine as she is.
Sim: bring him back to SSF4 status and I’ll be happy. He was fine, good character without even being top tier
Rose: take away all her AE nerfs, except ultra 2. Bring back vanilla SF4 sweep + piede for rose. Make her EX spiral a legit reversal. Finally, fix her hitboxes (goes back in the realm of taking away all her AE nerfs,) and ultra 2 can stay nerfed at that point, but i would like the hitboxes on u2 to be more like SSF4. AE it’s so hard to hit with.
Besides maybe a little bit of damage buff for her Ultra 2, (while it is very useful for her juggles, it’s one of the weakest Ultras in the game.) damage buffs isn’t the answer to her biggest problems imo. And that is her vulnerability to pressure from cross up/mixup/dive kick happy characters. EX SBK is NOT a good enough tool for dealing with those things. You have to charge, you have to crouch, and the trade (if it even trades at all) is usually horrible.
Chun can easily get locked into a passive guessing game state against those characters once they get in. And eventually they will. Other characters who also don’t have a Dragon Punch some times at least have some other options for escaping, or command throws, etc. But Chun doesn’t really.
Chun is a really good character imo, but she is really nowhere near becoming a dominant character. How many Chun Li’s do we tend to see in tournaments, let alone in top 8? The only one I can remember making it to top 8 with Chun in the past few years is Shizza in EVO 2010. I’m sure there are others who made it far in other tournaments, but that is the only one I can remember personally. She seems to be rare in tournaments. Heck, I rarely even run into her while playing Online. And isn’t that strange for a character who was placed so high up in the tier ranks in Super? Most of her bad match ups are tournament popular characters, such as. Yun, Akuma, Viper and Cammy for example. And online her tactics are not really the most easy to get by with due to her low damage. Especially when it comes to lag.
I guess people would rather have uppercuts and high damage than to have to guess correctly 3-4 times more.
In the end I think the goal for Capcom should be to make their characters more used by people. And Chun-Li is not really being used in tournaments. Even Nemo dropped her and went with Yang instead. She’s definitely not one of the more commonly used characters online either. Maybe it’s just me, but I run into way more Cody and Guy players than Chun-Li players. And they were bottom tier characters.
Capcom, make Chun-Li a more popular character to use.
My answer to that is to give her a better tool for dealing with dive kick/mixup pressure. That won’t suddenly make her the most dominant character. That will just give her a chance against the characters that she has a huge problem with at the moment.
Sakiyo to be made a legitimate contender to the lamers of Ryu. Make Pink Dan a master
A few things:
-She can safely chip with cr. HP xx Legs
- You can dash and buffer in EX Legs for quick chip to close out a round (and juggle from AA kikokens/df+ lk/etc.)
-Close HK xx HK Legs FADC not only combo’s into itself for good stun on hit, but is also at an advantage on block after the FADC (like +2 or + 3) so you can set up frame traps with it along with whatever high/low/throw mixups you decide to do. Also cl. HK xx HK Legs, FADC, cl HK xx EX Legs, kara-EX SBK works mid-screen on some characters for some serious damage and stun.
-cr. mk xx HK Legs~MK Legs is a low into legs that works on a good portion of the cast (I have the characters listed in the Chun forums but it also works on the twins, Oni and E. Ryu, which I haven’t listed yet). You can link any 7 frame move after that.
Then there’s the various Legs and EX Legs BnBs that players have been developing over the years.
I’m sorry, but this isn’t true. I’m finding new set ups and counters vs the twins every other day. Not sure if these things have been posted on the Chun forums yet since I haven’t been as active on there due to coursework, but if not, I’ll post what I’ve learned on there eventually. Matchups take time, and these are brand new characters for most of us (barely 2 months for console users), so there was never a promise that a solution to the problems would be found out quickly (I am starting to see more gaps though in their general movesets and they don’t take damage too well so…). Anyway, Chun has a natural weakness against divekicks and steep angled moves and certain pressure from up close, but they can still be dealt with. ‘Chun-Li cannot deal with twins at all’ is a false statement.
I disagree about nearly all of it, even about c.mk. Keep in mind this char is working as intended, which was not the case with Seth, as was proven by the change they made to the way he should be played.
- damage: by design, she has the edge over the rest of the cast on this point. Get over it.
- changing bk trajectories and boxes: who do you want to put off the most ? Viper players or the (very few) players who learnt to play against her and to read the BKs ?
- damage nerf on U1: no (again). Easier to land: she is supposed to be a difficult char, execution-wise (by design). And U1 is easy enough, at least from mid level of playing her.
- buff normals+buff c.mk hurtbox+a viable FA = Viper with footsies. Add feints to the mix, and it goes out of control. By design, not going to happen.
- diagonal j.hk into bk juggles: no opinion on this one.
The source of Sagat’s overpower was the damage he put to his opponents in Vanilla, along with his ability to take advantage on many trades. That was fixed. The st lk cancel was a regular mechanic that was not broken and didn’t need to be touched. It was a source of defense and a little offense in Vanilla, but nothing outrageous by any means. It also allows him to not be such a turtle, which has often been a complaint about the character.
As for Fei, it’s silly to decide his fate by how many people were playing him in top 32, 16, 8 or whatever. Even if you were to take that into account, some people are using him because of his ability to counter Yun, and there are a hell of a lot of Yuns now. There is a correlation between the arrival of the twins and more people using Fei, mainly people don’t want to get beasted on by them so they pick Fei. It doesn’t help to scale back a good counter to the twins, and there are plenty of character to pick that counter Fei already. Anyway, I certainly wouldn’t compare Fei to Yun in terms of being a drain on the rest of the cast. Yun is out there on his own.
do you really think capcom is gonna leave viper as is? its been 3 years, and she is probably the most unchanged character since vanilla. after the strong showing at evo, i guarantee you she’ll get hit with the nerf bat.
you can bet u1 is gonna get nerfed from the stupid amount of complaints from everyone. imo, the damage as fine for the precision it takes to land it compared to other ultras in the game. if you are gonna tame down the damage, you might as well make it easier to connect.
and seth was fine in ssf4.
Make blanka’s links more managable like 3 frame s. lp and a 3 frame c. lk PLEASE JESUS PLEASE need a combo like c lk, c lk, c mk , blanka ball
It’s because he is freaking hard to play. His mix ups are far from brainless and require a massive amount of skill to use properly. I don’t think people realize how many frame perfect set ups players have to learn in order to make him as good as he is. In addition you can’t get by with half assed footsies and spacing because small mistakes are half your health.
And he got the nerf bat hard coming out of Vanilla. And your right, he doesn’t have many bad match ups. Instead nearly all of his match ups are 5-5 with a handful of 6-4 match ups and a few 4-6 match ups. Akuma is balanced. If you nerf him anymore he will be worthless. As it is there is hardly anyone actually can play him well enough to justify the low health.
Suggestions to keep Yun the way he is only make me think that people have not fought good Yuns, only the wannabes on xbox live picking what they heard was the best character in the game. Truth is, good Yuns are still somewhat rare (but more good players are switching everyday), but when you finally play one, you know why he needs nerfed: his pressure game. You don’t get pushed out eventually against certain safe strings (which he can vary) and he can repeat it ad naseum until he decides to command throw you or you random something out.
Unless you are talking about a match I am unaware of, it was Andre vs Marn, which was an early slaughter. I don’t count that either, but it was nevertheless telling. (Andre no longer mains Bison any more, btw; he said he switched to the twins.) However, a more recent match illustrated how free this mu really is for Yun. Yipes fought IC Ruin at EVO on the stream and looked entirely free. Once Yun gets on Dictator – which is relatively easy for Yun with staggered dive kicks and the threat of dive kicks while Yun just normal jumps – Yun runs over Dictator for free, even with meter. EX PC is beat or trades with dive kick (resetting to a favorable position for yun). EX SK is safe jumped. Teleport is OS’d with lunge punch or he can often just see it and lunge, because of its recovery. EX DR can get hit by shoulders and lunge punches depending on the distance. Whatever Yun wants to do, Yun can do it. And then you get knocked down or, worse, cornered, and it starts again. The pressure is just too good. Guesses are limited to trying to AA him on the way up a dive kick and randomly ex pc through expected command throws (of course, he is already in dive kick range then!), but Yun can beat all pre-emptive AA attempts by Dictator with his low moves and random is just random. Single matches don’t determine anything, but the record is showing that Dictator just gets overrun in this match or just gets lucky, relying on bad moves by the opponent. Current wins don’t look very solid at all. I’m not ready to call this match exactly, but it is clearly in Yun’s favor.
I’m not generally for any more nerfs either but Yun is actually overpowered.
I edited the main posting to include the following that I have gathered from the many posts here. These are things that keep coming up frequently or that many (the majority) people seem to agree on.
- Ken is fine, don’t nerf him, leave him the same or buff him.
- Viper is fine, don’t nerf her, leave her the same or buff her.
Please add the following two things for Seth too. Most people will agree on these:
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Give him back his old stomps, or alternatively increase their active frames/hitbox so they don’t randomly whiff every now and then and so they work in the corner after lightning legs on all of the cast.
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Give him his invincibility frames back on his U1.
As far as the stretchy arms are concerned. I hated that they got removed at first. But overall it did make the game feel more balanced, and even more enjoyable (for the other players). With that said I wouldn’t mind if they returned in some shape or form!
My Evil Ryu wish list
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Make LK axe kick safer. Right now it’s -7, I feel it should be -2 or -3 at most. This way it can be used as a effective pressure tool and open up other opportunities for Evil Ryu
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HK axe kick is a true over head. Right now nobody uses it and nobody can find a use for it. It’s very slow and very easy to jump or stuff. If it were at least a true overhead it can be used in mix ups with the faster versions to stop people from mashing or trying to escape and just be forced to block correctly.
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Change start up of cr. MK to 5 frames so he can combo it off jabs. This also allow him to combo into axe kick from jabs, you could do it before with st. MP, but it was a little more awkward.
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Change start up of cr. HK to 6 frames and st. LP to +6 so he can combo into sweep. This also means he can tatsu sweep everybody that Akuma can. But without demon flip, he can’t do much with it, but it’d be something nice to have regardless.
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Change health and stun to 900 each.
I feel that with these changes Evil Ryu will be a complete character with some uniqueness so that he can be played differently and not quite like the other shoto’s. He’ll be good but not top tier at all IMO. Just solid and I think we would see more of him in the tournament scene. As he is right now, nobody besides a few people like me who just thinks he looks very bad ass will touch him with a 10 ft pole. I doubt he sees all these changes, but I think they’re fair and not just another character fan asking for way too much.
Viper certainly doesn’t need any buffs, I have been watching this thread for awhile and it seems the majority of people say let her be. I don’t recall anyone saying she needed to be buffed, maybe 1 or 2 people but that notion is just silly.
Viper is fine, there is a reason she remained pretty much untouched from Super to AE. If they were going to change her at all and give her a SLIGHT damage nerf I would be fine with it. Wouldn’t necessarily agree with it, but if would stop people from complaining about her damage I would welcome it.
Can we reduce the twins’ upkicks to be 5f startup minimum? It’d probably make little difference except for Yun’s EX since that only has 5f invincibility, but for everyone else, it makes it a whole lot easier to safe jump them; so you won’t have to be frame perfect with your safe jump timing.
If I’m not mistaken, only shotos have 3f dp’s, and only charge characters have 4f dp’s, and everyone else is 5f or slower. I dunno why the twins have to be an exception to this.