As for my Daigo argument, my stance is that Daigo is the BEST player in the world, using this supposedly overpowered character… if Yun was so overpowered, and the absolute best player in the world was using him to his fullest potential… how could he lose? If you’re not Evo Top 8 material, you’re not beating Daigo, regardless of anything. Luckily for most people, the Yun players you’re facing, are nowhere near Daigo… so, for them… no, you don’t have to be Evo Top 8 level to beat them. Seriously… to try to kill my argument by equating your average Yun player, to Daigo… is… well it’s SRK, I guess.
As for Marn v. Yipes… that was one match… the weekend AE came out… sorry… it takes more than one set to make me think something about a match-up. Yun v. Bison isn’t even bad for Bison.
Anyway, Yun does not get in for free at all. He gets in for free against players that can’t play defense. Yun has strong offense, but his Dive Kicks have a really shitty hitbox… kill it. His lunge punch is fairly slow… kill it.
Or keep complaining… whichever…
BTW, you are the EXACT kind of player that Capcom needs to ignore when balancing games.
Hmm… you’re probably right. Blanka would need a buff or two to compete with a stronger field of characters.
one of the problems is that characters like Yun and Seth simply have…wait for it… TOO MANY OPTIONS, while other characters simply don’t have enought. Like in my response to HAV, the damage isn’t the problem it’s the stupid mix ups and for Yun the ease of getting in and starting the offensive.
Ono has already said that he knows what players think about Yun, the nerf is coming so deal with it. I personally can’t wait. They need to remove some of his options so his offensive momentum isn’t as stupid as it is now.
Did you even watch evo the whole weekend? LOL, yes, +1 on lunge punch doesn’t make a difference at all lolololol, it is fine, lol since it doesn’t let him get it for nearly free whenever he wants to. While footsies and zoning Yun can wait for something to be thrown out and then bam, he’s in. I swear you didn’t watch the event.
And yes, lol, his dive kicks are SOO shitty that they can not only change his jump arc to the Yun players choosing at 3 different angles but also that the angle of attack from in the air negates most AA moves.
You can play defense but it won’t stop him from getting in since he has so many options… It’s players LIKE YOU that Capcom needs to ignore when balancing games. And they will…Yun is getting nerfed and he deserves it. He has too many options that are too stupid and lead into god-like mixups and whether you think you or not it makes him too good.
Daigo is a really good player and yun is the best character overall, but for your argument to make any sense Daigo would have to be “THE BEST” bar none, with no gray area…but that is not the case. All the players in the Top 8 I think are on the same level. Daigo is just more famous. So, sure, if you are one of the TOP 8 players in the world then Yun is not a problem. lol.
Increase damage across the board
Rebuff airthrow startup and range
Change stupid 1 frame links: cr.lp > cr.mp should be a two frame link. It makes no sense that this is a 1 frame link. Balrog’s is similar, but he has comboability in other ways.
Reduce bazooka knee recovery and startup. Make it a viable anti low option
Redo the baooka need motion to either be back + roundhouse so that Guile can have a back charge during st.lk. It is an awesome footsies move not used because it’s impossible to cancel into special.
st.mp should put the opponent in a juggable state
Guile’s close standing FP > cr.mp should work on more characters. The combo does good damage off a good read, but only works pretty much on heavies. You can easily increase the hit stun or reduce the pushback so that it’ll work on many more character sizes
Utra 2 need faster startup especially if you’re going to keep the damage low
hav - blanka isn’t fine. you dont know enough about the character to make that call imo. aside that, i think i kind of agree with a lot of your post. the game needs a patch, half the characters are shit and boring.
Her fierce never got nerfed, so I’m not sure what you mean. She has plenty of anti-air normals to deal with jumpins. You just have to know the right button at the right time. She never had a single, dedicated anti-air in the SF4 series and I’m okay with that because it’s meant to be a weakness that you can adjust to and turn into a strength as you learn more about the character.
Chun Li has never been the same between games. There are plenty of games where she’s been predominantly charge-based and plenty where she’s had more motion type moves. The most consistent thing about her has been that she’s always been relatively fast and that she has generally good pokes that are annoying to deal with imo.
I can understand if motion-based is your preference, but to say it strange that’s she’s not currently motion-based I disagree with because she’s never always been that way. SBK has pretty much always been a charge move and Upkicks have only been a DP motion in the VS games AFAIK. In this game she’s a hybrid character (like she is in most ground-based capcom games): She has two charge specials, one motion based special, one mash/multi-tap/piano special, a charge super, a charge ultra, and a motion ultra.
The main two special moves people seem to base whether she’s a charge or motion character in whatever game has been her Fireball and her Super.
In this game, with her supers and ultra 1 being among the fastest and best punishers in the game and being linkable from some of her normals and specials, I think making those into motion based moves would push her too far over the edge and make her overpowered (and I definitely don’t want to lose the speed or damage of those moves to compensate). She can rush down and be aggressive well enough with the lightning legs pressure/combos, ultra 2 and the occasional hasanshu combined with her fast normals, instant overheads and good range grab up close. I asked for a kara throw to add to this type of aggressive play just because I wanted something evil to play with… but it’s not necessary as she’s already pretty good on rushdown.
I feel that kikoken is a charge based move in this game in order to force her to zone more properly because she has several different moves she can use to counter and AA with depending on the distance. Also to make her be careful about giving up ground when she uses them. If they make it so she doesn’t have to do that (i.e. make it a HCF motion), then I feel her zoning game would be too good for SF4 and she’d be able to match other fireball users too well ON TOP OF being able to hasanshu, super and ultra 1. And again, I wouldn’t want to give up any frames or damage to compensate for that kind of change. I like them the way they are.
As for B+mk, B+ mk, Down up +MK target combo… it’s not useless. I use it plenty… as a whiff punisher from the distance where I don’t have enough time to walk up and do a stronger BnB. 'Chances are, 9 times out of 10 if you can whiff punish with chun’s st. MP or st. FP from that distance and you don’t have super (or haven’t charged) to tack on extra damage, then you can also whiff punish with b+mk and then confirm into the target combo… despite it being 2 frames slower on startup. That’s 168 damage and more ground gained compared to 100 damage in a ground game when you don’t have meter… and if you’re using Ultra 2 at the time, you can tack that on to close out a round or gain a life-lead when you need to.
It actually helps a lot in certain matchups (like vs. Viper because she has more recovery whiffing specials than it looks like but most characters can’t reach her in time unlike Chun) and it actually works BETTER than st. mp going up against some character’s pokes (like Sagat’s cr. mk) because of hitbox differences. Did you know you can even lk hsu over Honda’s headbutt on reaction and whiff punish the recovery with the B+mk target combo? I like the move, please don’t remove it. It’s usefulness is not readily apparent but it IS useful.
The only time I’ve been screwed by that move is sometime when walking backward and trying to anti-air with st. mk but forgetting to go to neutral.
-A lot of Chun players hated the nerf on df+lk. I never really used it that much unless I needed to, but I recognize how much worse it’s gotten. I think it was best suited for dealing with jumpins from up close because she had kind of a blind spot there, but now it’s kind of hard to react and do that from that range. It’s A LOT harder to combo anything off of a trade in AE, but I like being able to EX legs, stomps or Ultra 2 off of landing it normally. It got a speed and hitbox nerf in AE and makes her go into an airborne/reset state on trade. I don’t mind having it re-buffed in any of those areas, but how do other people feel about that? I remember a lot people muttering “that’s BS” all the few times I would use it when they started jumping in excessively.
shift ex hb’s hitbox so it hits higher ala sf2. if we use this site as a reference and say ex hb hits on frame 9, i’d like it to hit on frame 7 instead. keep the startup the same, naturally. honda has problems with steeply angled jumpins aka divekicks, so this change is meant to address that. of course, ex hb mashing out of blockstrings is also a problem, so there should be some compensation. e.g. after the invincibility wears off, make the redbox high enough such that crouching/low profile attacks can stuff the hb clean, or give the hb absolutely horrendous horizontal priority, or something. you get the idea
change oicho motion to 360k. getting accidental oicho when i want aa chop is really fucking annoying.
revert u2 to its super incarnation; make it a 720. i’d argue the “easier” motion is actually more difficult to input. doing hcb x2 from d/b is pretty awkward. you’re basically doing raging storm
give cl.hp more vertical priority after it extends and/or increase the width of the redbox towards honda. far s.hp is fine though
revert the blockstun on fierce hands.
ex hands +5 on hit. still neutral on block. 105 damage.
and some cuter changes i don’t even know if i’d actually want to see or not:
keep jab hb as it is, but decrease its startup to 9 or 8. throw invulnerability would be icing on the cake (beat both c.lk and throw) but that could be broken. imagine if viper’s ground bk hit on frame 9 lol. then again we are talking about honda
more active frames on s.lk/s.mk.
ex oicho has range 0.9-1.0, startup 3, and greatly reduced recovery frames (say, a little more than those of a normal throw)
give me more of a reason to pick different versions of hands
don’t care all that much about jab hb. super j.mp was pretty retarded. you know what would make me happy? being able to hb through yoga fires like in super again.
This is completely superficial but for Bison replace one of his taunts with the classic throat cut animation which is already in the game. Kinda sad I almost never get to see it except with a timeout win.
I would accept the loss of her AE normal buffs for the return of SSF4 Cammy. I’m sorry but all these other ideas of altering her without returning TKCS are retarded. She’s a gambling rushdown character and TKCS was a huge part of that! Watch Santrax videos. Playing Cammy that way gave her a fun niche in the roster! It’d be like dumbing down C. Viper… Sure she’d be effective for more players but she wouldn’t BE Viper! AE Cammy ain’t Cammy enough!
Give Zangief his Knockdown with ex GH back. Take the improved SPD range away if needed. Tired of Gief getting unnecessary nerfs every god damn version.
I feel like some people in this thread want Yun/Fei to be nerfed to the point where they aren’t even viable. Its like they want more characters just to fall back into the lower-tier, under-used characters, just because they are annoying.
I also don’t really understand the whole 'EX Lunge +1 on block, broken!" Mentality. Ken’s EX Tatsu, while obviously not able to lead into ultra (which I suppose is a more valid argument for lunge being broken, I suppose, but I digress) is +1 on block. I’m sure there’s some reason I’m wrong, which will be pointed out later, but whatever.
Nah, Fei is fine the way he is. Yun needs some nerfs. But not these huge nerfs like some people want.
Really They just need to Denerf the characters who need the buffs. Even if it’s just a little bit.
Most of the nerfs just seemed like they got it from random people bitching about it.
Its Ken’s ex tatsu is +1 on hit actually, -3 on block.
@HAV, you know capcom aren’t going to do too many buffs. The lazy way of fixing the game is to nerf nerf nerf, instead of very good and well placed buffs. @Graphf rushdown characters are suppose to get in, and do damage. The fact that upkicks is not fadcable is a big hole in yun’s defense and really… if your having that much trouble with dive kicks… just srk, jab it out of the air or cr.hp if you have it.
