Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread

People don’t understand why Fei is so good in this game. It’s not because he got buffed so OP, but because almost all of his bad or even (most of them) matches were nerfed to shit. Take out his + on EX Rekka, buff the slower, more defensive, and charge characters again that make Street Fighter, Street fighter (I’m sorry but this years top 8 didn’t seem very “street fighter” to me. As hype as it was I am a fan of those slower defensive matches too), give a few buffs to lower tier characters, (I have a few ideas for hakan.), and send a few nerfs the twins way (Mostly on normal hit boxes and frame advantage on some moves, and meter gain) and all will be well.

Ex. Messiah is already such a godlike option, its fine where it is. Braindead move but JUST SLIGHTLY not too braindead. You want Rufus to have as much or MORE health than Gief or T.hawk? -_-

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Ideas for Hakan:
Start the round with Mk oil
Invincibility or less startup on EX slide
Dash cancel out of 360-k when oiled instead of just coward crouch cancel (maybe too strong…I dunno I just would like it. :D)
A proper grappler grab (2 frames like T.Hawk and Gief)
Proper grappler health (1100 like T.Hawk and Gief)

Agreed 100% with HAV. Just give the nerfed characters from Super some or all of their juice back, and be VERY conservative with any other changes. And then give the game some goddamn time to develop.

Make yang/yun’s frame advanatges more like 3rd strike and less like vf5 akira’s (IE YUN: Shoulder check! Shoulder check! hrrng!). Yun damage nerf.

Take away every nerf on everyone else that happened during the transition from super to ae.
Keep the buffs.

Possibly speed up the fireball of evil Ryu a bit, since everyone else will be back up to zoning speed, possibly a >>slight<< health buff.

Fix ultras that people FALL OUT OF.

He has a ton of really good, safe, counter hit baiting normals. I think he is one of the better realized character designs and adding in totally safe specials or improving walk speed screw with that style.

Ahh, my bad I meant to say higher stun.

Anyways, just increase damage off of his BnB’s (somewhere between vanilla and SF4), and make it so EX Messiah doesn’t fly over crouching characters. I can accept the lowered damage on Messiah, so it’s a fair trade so long as that property is changed.

Ryu is a hard as hell matchup, and it doesn’t help that I fly over him on an EX Messiah HIT. That’s BS. That should have been changed in SSF4, he’s gotten no tweaks only nerfs in all 3 games despite never being top tier (arguably top 5 in vanilla, but that’s well arguable lol).

Messiah missing is necessary, IMO. Without that, the threat of Messiah is just too much.

In reality, Messiah missing works out for Rufus in a major way. Sure, you don’t get the immediate momentum shift that a landed Messiah provides, but you can almost guarantee that in certain match-ups, you will ONLY have to deal with Low Short on wake-up. You’re basically waking up into a VERY predictable, and none-to-threatening situation.

I disagree. Especially now with the damage nerf. EX messiah still missing is just stupid.

It can be baited and punished just like anything else. Unlike SRK’s which only need 2 bars to be made safe, EX messiah needs 3 (one for the move itself) to be safe.

You can keep Rufus the same, but just give this one small buff is all I’m asking, it wont’ even change his tier position. Learn how to delegate/negotiate/compromise. Either the move should have the damage back, or it should not fly over crouching characters. IDK why that is so unreasonable to you.

But whatever. It’s not just me who thinks this, plenty of top Rufus players all agree. And again, this is not game changing request here.

I already said Messiah should have damage back.

Cammy doesn’t need old HkSA back. If you’re any decent with her you can hit confirm a 2 hit arrow off a cr.lp. In fact I don’t want spiral arrow touched because I think it’s a plus to have many different versions of spiral arrow that one can end the combo with allowing her to constantly change up her wake up mix up.

Really I’d like to see spin knuckle usable. It’s been near as useless since Vanilla. It can’t even be used as well as it used to as an option select. Needs to be sped up imo. Hooligan too. Don’t want to give Cammy a spiral arrow armor breaker, fine, make her currently crappy armor breakers more efficient.

One or the other is fine. But Rufus has other problems.

If he’s going to be tourney viable, he needs increased damage on his bnbs. Not many people know, ALL his BnB’s got BIG damage reduction from SF4 to SSF4. I’m talking anywhere from 50 to 100 damage reduction on all of them.

The problem with Rufus in AE is that he’s Yun Lite. Which, IMO is ok, but since he’s Yun Lite, IE does not have nearly the options Yun has, give him nice damage off his limited repetoir. I’d like to see +20 on the ones reduced from by 50, plus 50 on those reduced by 100. Ex Messiah slightly enhanced, but not SF4 damage, and no longer flys over people.

Also a changed hitbox on s.HK so it scoops up low normals.

With all these changes, he’d definitely be viable again. Maybe not top 5, or even top 10, but viable.

I don’t want style over substance, he needs the faster walk speed to improve his throw game & to make his counter hit game relevant, as it is right now you can down back Cody all day…just don’t mash normals. His overhead is punishable on hit so that’s not a great option either. Cody hits like a truck & you’ll blow people up from time to time but not consistently enough to be relevant in a tournament, he’s good as is but he needs something extra IMO.

@OP
You dont seem to know what balance is.

My changes:
Twins:
-Palm damage down from 160 to 100
-Palm active frames down from 15 to 9

Yun:

  • <EDIT> EX Lunge punch is now -2 on block OR doesnt focus break anymore
    -Lunge punch into u1 doesnt work anymore (nobody deserves a full screen 1 EX bar safe on block special that goes into Ultra)
    -Lp shoulder is now neutral on hit instead of +2.
    -C. grab range nerf to 0.92
    -C. grab start up slowed down from 7 to 10 frames (EX now 7 frames) so it’s like Yang

Cammy
-Cannon Strike can now be done closer to the ground (around chest height).

Fei Long
-Damage nerf of 30 on all version of his flame kicks.

With AE, they got some things right (Juri, Hakan, and Makoto buffs) but so many things wrong (pretty much all the nerfs).

You just don’t nerf mid tier characters, I’m sorry. And the result is, less variety in high level play. Where were the Guiles, the Abels, the Cammys at this years Evo?

If you gave us back the Super versions of said characters, they still wouldn’t be top tier, but they would be much more viable. And that’s the name of the game here.

The fundamental design philosophy of SF4 should have been simple: Nerf the top, buff everyone else (slight buffs to mids, big buffs to bottoms). Instead they wasted time and resources nerfing and changing characters who didn’t need changed or nerfed.

The problem with AE isn’t Yun and Fei Long. It’s that you took characters who with a little work could win and made them weaker. Super versions of Cammy and Guile could easily beat Yun and Fei Long in AE.

The fix in AE 2012 is simple: give us the “best” versions of Abel, Fuerte, Rufus, Guile, Cammy (to name a few), improve the mid and bottom tier where you can (slightly) and nerf the top (slightly). There. You’ll have many more characters who are viable in high level play, and it won’t even take drastic changes.

I really hope they get this right. Alot is riding on this final patch. It could be the most balanced SF ever if they do this properly. And we have 3 years with this same game engine, there’s no excuse they can’t get this right this time.

Hav –
You just don’t get it about Yun. It’s NOT his damage that is the problem its the fact that Yun can lock certain charcters down and there is next to nothing that they can do about it. Look at Daigo vs Tokido, shit was straight stupid…Tokido looked like a scrub becasue Yun’s dive kicks and mix ups are over the top.

Also also look at Yun v Sim. There was another disgusting match a few months back Where Marn vs Yipes and Marn straight fucked up yipes with Yun as yipes’s Bison sat there helpless not able to do anything.

It’s shit like that which is the reason Yun needs a damn nerf. You say that is the best character “**fell to characters that are decidedly lower in the accepted rankings” **then it proves something about Yun not needing a nerf…are you serious or just getting dull in the mind? Sure IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE TOP 8 PLAYERS IN THE WORLD YOU CAN BEAT HIM “HANDEDLY” lololololoololloloololololooll, this is seriously your argument?

The problem with Yun has never been his damage, it’s his ability to get in nearly whenever he wants and, once in, his god-like mixups, combine this with his excellent and controllable dive kicks and he can effectively shut down a large portion of the cast in the most stupid ways. Watching matches like Diago v Tokido only solidified in my mind that Yun needs serious rebalancing…it’s bull shit and was a bull shit match. And so are you if you think that since the top 8 players in the WORLD cann beat daigo/Yun it makes him balanced. So oblivious.

Lunge punch is already more then -2 on block, that would be a buff…

CHUN

  • Make Chun fb motion based instead of charge. Chun is a quick, rush down type character that is designed to be played aggressively. Making her charge based seems strange to me.
  • remove her b.MK MK up kick target combo (useless in the current state) and make the upkicks a special command AA (DP motion). SBK should only be used as a combo extender and not AA (frames would need to be tweaked slightly for this case).

Overall changes:

  • Shorten the reversal window a bit. That alone will prevent some questionable stuff from happening.

  • **Give us the option to turn off input shortcuts. **

Character specific changes:

Guile:

  • The easy way to fix him is to simply revert him back to his Super self. He was a very solid character but far from broken. How major tournaments were won by a Super Guile anyway? Make all of the Sonic Boom’s properties exactly as they were in SSFIV, meter build included. Same thing for Sonic Hurricane.

  • As Gilley pointed out here, Guile’s turning animation prevents him from auto-correcting his AA properly like the rest of the cast. Please fix this.

If Capcom wants to experiment a bit and turn Guile into a more offensive turtle, they should make his mid to close range options a bit more reliable.

  • Increased range on c. MK. A Guile staple since SF2.

  • A bit more hit stun and block stun on his j. LK. A more reliable cross up will promote a more offensive playstyle.

  • Make the c. LP, c.MP link into a 2-framer. See above.

Ryu:

  • c. MK back to how it was in Super

Excellent post.

I would add a damage nerf of 30~40 on all of Fei’s BnB rekka/chicken wing combos.

HAV I noticed you mentioned that Blanka should stay the same, but if you buff all of those other characters back to super/vanilla levels he’s going to struggle mightily especially with his AE nerfs. A lot of his workable matchups exist solely because his nerfs and character deficiencies are mitigated by other characters having flaws that he can exploit.

Other character’s nerfs and his ability to fight the twins somewhat evenly is what is keeping him somewhat viable, AE introduced a shift in his matchups, but for the most part he gained/lost the same amount of good/bad matchups. By reintroducing his bad old matchups like Vanilla Gen and Super Cammy/Honda and making matches like Zangief tougher it would effectively be a nerf for him.

The other characters you said should be left alone are all better than him and he only has 1 advantage matchup vs. them in Viper, and he gets stomped by a few. He seemed out of place really.

I agree with your overall philosophy though. Characters need more tools, not less.

Give Balrog back his ssfiv version headbutt and thats pretty much it. not that it changes my game plan at all but it was just dumb to add frames to something that was already easily punished.