Hey D…remember when you jumped at me with ur tatsu nonsense and Sagat did step rh then you lost half ur life to a tag in combo?
Good times.
there is no way cammy is better than lill
lili is good to the point that if this wasn’t a team.game cammy would be obsolete
almost everything is better
I second that. lili is far more legit then Cammy but Cammy prolly has better buttons.
What does Lili poke with? As my understanding goes she only has f+mk chain which nets -1
Cammy has a Dp, better jab (better buttons in general), and one of the fastest walk speeds. I wouln’t say Lili blows her out of the water, but she does offer more imo
Lii’s cMK is also really good.
Don’t downplay her fMK string either. It’s really good. She also has amazing cMP’s (but doesn’t everyone in this game).
lili dose not need a actual dp , she’s has some of the best anti air options in the game and counters , and has 2 invincible reversals with meter one of witch is a mixup when blocked aswell
cammy dose have better buttons , but lili hs better options overall and has s legit high/low
and so far she is the only character with anti roll tech (i think) she can legit keep you in the corner
you can honestly block cammy all day pretty free even more since throws suck
pretty much this is her best poke range wise but pokes isn’t what she wants to do
Just elaborating on that, I actually like Jin’s fireball a lot actually because with some yomi it’s super effective. Reading a jump forward or backward and properly placing an orb is great. In footsies it’s pretty good to when your opponent thinks you’re going to place it on top of them and then they run into doing some nonsense. Zoning with the orbs also lends itself to situations where his AA is pretty effective. If meter wasn’t so precious I’d say his EX Orb would see a lot more use in the neutral game.
Hahahaha
imo S tier:
Ryu, Rufus, Kazuya
the rest i dont know, but these three are gods
lol yea EL. that was lol. i also remember your kaz trying to get in on juri…by jumping lol. ggs though
also, i agree with freddy loco list. i would personally put ryu over juri in S tier.
EDIT: bison should be down there with asuka in C tier. rog too.
So far from what I can tell the character that everyone has the most varied opinion of is Julia.
Seriously, S Tier in this game is only for Ryu, Rufus and whoever else is brain dead easy to use and win with, so Juri shouldn’t be in S tier.
If Rufus ends up being in SFV I won’t even bother, he seems to get more and more brain dead with each game.
There’s no focus attack to destroy Vega.
Lili is sooo underrated. and f+mk is 0 on block. and you can go into an a high/low mixup in the tekken string that starts with f+mk. The low sets up great hardknockdown with good positioning.
The overhead makes the opponent fly away pushing them to the corner with hardknockdown.
f+mk is also a great punish starter. alot of characters cant punish many things on block because of the pushback. Lili can punish eg kazuya’s rising sun overhead ender on block!
her st.lp is godlike. cammys has better range but Lili has so many options post st.lp. +3 on block 4 frame startup.
But fMK>MP is-1 on block. And that’s the one you do to confirm combos.
It goes low on the second hit, and ONLY goes high on the third. So it isn’t really great mixup.
Seriously I don’t get that tier list also.
I don’t understand what r these ppl thinking Guile A+?
I guess we’ll c when NA VS Jap on SF X TK
The tier lists for them Japs just might change~
Raven has good aa options, you just have to pick the right one for the situation. st.mk, cr.mk, cr.mp, st.lp, ex windcross, super, and his air to airs all have a place
His biggest weaknesses are the following IMO
-
His reversal is slow and unsafe even if tag canceled, and while teleport helps this somewhat a predicted teleport can be punished.
-
His alpha counter sucks. You can’t combo off of it and it is one of the slowest in the game. You shouldn’t actually alpha counter a lot of things because the counter will be blockable.
-
His b.mk string isn’t really threatening. You can actually just rhythm block the high/low(start standing go low late without reacting), and alpha counter the lk followup. You can also mash on the string on block if you have something invincible. This coupled with how risky and low reward mk alter ego is makes him somewhat reliant on jab pressure coupled with walkup throw in a game where throws are bad.
Yes he’s great in the 2nd position especially with a lifelead and meter, yes he probably has the best keepaway in the game, yes he does fat damage, yes he has good left/right mixups, but it’s hard to open people up with him if they just refuse to ever hit buttons.
Looks like a popularity contest to me.
Loling SF characters doing well in a SF game. even though they have tekken sprites, the tekken characters are all new characters. not tekken characters. all brand new characters in this type of game. Remember when Rufus and viper first dropped in vanilla nobody wanted to have shit to do with them. Please can we let the game evolve? I though this was a balance discussion, not a tierlist discussion, and there are some big difference between the two.
One of the biggest happen to be that a Tierlist Discussion draws conclusions based on character v character matchups and ranks those characters based on some type of system (Usually, best of 10). A Balance discussion draws conclusions based on fairness of play, how a character’s traits affect the overall cast (like rufus’s dive kick being +5 on block), and whether a characters’ moveset affect the overall balance of the game. Heresay tierlists should mean nothing to us but laughs at this point. No one can draw conclusions other than
-Rufus/Juri are almost broken
-Ryu is boring, but effective (as usual)
-Ken sucks. Ken’s tatstsu and DP is great though
-Nobody knows shit about the tekken cast.
OF COURSE the SF cast will be higher on tierlists right now. We’ve been playing them all in a very similar game for several years now. Since we are unable to determine the utility of the tekken character until at least a few months with them, we should focus more on balance, and I’m sure that’s why the thread was created in the first place. Not to talk about matchups, and not to talk about tiers.
For those who know me, you know i’m all about the tiers. I’m big on tiers. I worked for weeks on one of the final AE:2012 tierlists. But right now, all we have are opinions. We don’t have anyone who knows all of the framedata or the matchups well enough on either side of the cast to present a tier list. We should scoff at any tierlist, japanese or not, that is based purely on first impressions. It is unfair to most of the characters and the players of those characters, specifically the new characters who have not had the chance to defend themselves and develop (or get patched lmao) to a point where they are running at 100%.
Or we could just say fuck it and continue speculating about tierlists. 
on the raven alpha counter thing is that you can tag canel the counter at all?
because you cant combo off anybody elses unless you do even if it looks like you can