Fug it, let’s speculate. We should also keep in mind that characters aside we’re still probably not even playing the game right. Like in Vanilla MvC3 after awhile we figured that popping X-Factor Level 1 was the new hotness (aside from picking DP). Granted that game didn’t have too much time to develop before Ultimate, but we started to figure out what’s what. In that regard I think we can make more justifiable claims for who’s good and who’s not once we know for sure what’s good and what’s not. This probably won’t be till after Evo though.
Again, i dont’ feel there’s something wrong with speculating, but either way don’t you think that the speculation should be part of an entirely different discussion? It takes months to hammer those things out. and clouding a Balance discussion would take away focus on things like the root cause of balance issues. Watch this:
If I asked, how come no one uses pandora what would everyone say? It sucks? You have 8 seconds? Its useless?
Then I say, Hey actually, I was about to lose yesterday, and I caught somoene with about 3/4 life with the following combo:
Jin, Rufus
Jumping into corner with Jin
XU j.HK, Pandora, Rufus comes in and does, c.MK, EX GT, s.HK, s.Hk, Super (little more than 700 damage)
Easily killed them. Bam comback mechanic. took 7 seconds.
then we argue about how we didn’t know that Pandora was so good, and people argue against pandora. bla bla bla.
meanwhile
We in the TIERLIST DISCUSSION bring this up, then we start talking about way to combo in and out of Pandora, and a character’s viability based on their ability to contine a combo say, after being called in via pandora. We’d run through the characters and talk about how so and so would be better than so and so and force changes in the matchup charts. ETCETCETC we know how this goes. My only question here was, what are we talking about? would it be better, since some are so focused on tierlists, that we just make a tierlist thread? Or is there aleady one and I missed it like an idiot (i vote for this lol)? Or is everyone afraid to make one and be ridiculed because its so early?
Or, like i said, we can just spam the balance thread with tierlist crap. Damn this is some good coffee:coffee:
Anyone else think the damage Kaz can do is a bit ridiculous? x) I have people doing basic slaughterhook combos on me for almost half life… It’s gonna be scary when people actually learn how to do EWGF combos. T~T
it pretty much instantly grounds them so even with a tag cancel you’re out of luck.
exactly. this is why i get frustrated with ‘things that can save sfxt’. give it 6 months. if there’s still issues then, make changes.
The fact that the Rufus Law matchup is as bad as it is(fucking 9-1 not kidding) is reason enough for Rufus to be nerfed. Fuck that character. He’s broke by design in this game. Divekicks against characters with no anti airs is so cheap…
By no means a pro player here boys but I’ve spent a lot of time playing street all my life , I love it it and I love street x taken more so than any other.( never been a fan of marvel). but the game feels broken , got caught by an infinite today by one our own srk guys and let me tell you it suxs and I’m not a combo heavy guy and all this time out shit hopefully gets fixed , kick backs like marvel and remove infinites what was that game by rare in the good old days oh yah killer instinct lol
I’ve played this game to pieces. Play Yoshi/Lili because they’re fun and all that, but I’ve messed with pretty much everybody at this point.
I’ll start playing again when one person can give me an excuse to not play Ryu/Rufus in competitive.
Everyone thought Sentinel was godlike week 1 and while he was consequently nerfed it turned out he wasn’t as dominating in the meta-game as people originally perceived. Whether or not this will be the case with Ryu/Rufus remains to be seen, but you’re not giving the other characters time to develop. Honestly those characters do look good right out of the box and probably won’t move too far, but who’s to say that all the other characters won’t develop tech to get on their level? It’s kind of like the whole Ultimate Wesker debacle in the beginning where people thought he was the best, but it turned out they were all just smoking the reefer a little too much.
@the mossad man: IIRC I think the Vanilla Marvel balance discussion evolved into the tier list discussion, and this will probably be the same course this thread takes. I feel like these threads are just effectively Meta-Game Discussion threads. Without strict patrolling of the topic or multiple threads to address different aspects it’s probably all going to be lumped in here anyway. Once we know more about the game and want to get into the knitty gritty threads can probably branch off of this one. I think tier list discussions along with actual balance are complimentary discussions anyhow.
If anybody comes up with a safer/simpler/more damaging/more pressuring team then I’ll drop this game to go pro in Shaq Fu. You can quote me on that shit.
P.S. I remember saying vanilla sent wasn’t as good as wolverine >.< lol IF this game doesn’t start heading in a drastically different direction this is what we’re stuck with.
I think Capcom designed the cast in that manner specifically to balance both sides out, from an overall perspective. At least, that’s as far as I’ve seen when looking at all the characters. Defense and Control is the theme for the SF side while the Tekken characters are Power and Options. There is no doubt that the Tekken cast has to play cat and mouse with their SF counterparts but when they get an opening and pounce, it’s a mauling, more or less.
Most folks right now are playing with the SF4 mindset so it’s definitely the strongest. Once people get more comfortable with being aggressive, I think it’ll be interesting.
Also, Kuma is definitely A! <3 The bear.
I think Ryu will be on the decline. I think his dash cancel stuff is okay, but not solid. My Guile can get a guaranteed flashkick everytime he does it. His dash does have recovery.
Rufus will drop for the same reasons he dropped in vanilla. People learned the spacing for him, learned their AA timing and found ways to deal with divekick pressure. Rufus and Ryu will probably always be a solid team but far from unbeatable.
You have to practice your footsies against Ryu. I did it with my Nina and I’m all the better for it. She doesn’t beat Ryu, but Ryu can’t just mash cr.mp against her all day. His cr.mk is actually worse than it is in sfiv. Much easier to whiff punish. And while his sweep is cancellable, it still reversable punishable if done at bad ranges. I would urge you to go in the lab and focus in your punishment game. View your replays, find out what pokes/tactics are giving you issues, and find out counters.
Rufus has a lot of unsafe stuff people run with him. Hint he should never been doing repeated divekicks. And his hitbox on his divekick are his feet. People sre deceived because they try to anti air his body and he wiggled through most anti airs. In a game like this its really important to know your punishes. I think that will seperate skill levels for at least the first few months
Punishment was a big problem in the early SFiv vanilla days. Here are some of the things that became easier to punish over time:
Bad spaced Balrog dash straights (typically jab punishable, or could be focused/neutral jumped on reaction)
Ex dash punch (throwable on reaction)
Guile sweep (free focus crumple, ultra punishable)
Chun li sweep (punishable after focus)
Rufus dive kick pressure (interruptable by jabs, easy to os)
E.honda nj.fp (punishable by angled anti airs)
Ryu sweep (ultra/super punishable by most characters, sweep punishable by others)
List goes on. These moves had their reign or terror early in the games life, but people started to get comfortable with punishing them. I think people aren’t as use to punishing things yet, so a lot of non solid stuff rocks.
Actually half of those I knew about a month into Vanilla. I figured out I could demon Guile’s c.HK on reaction.
Chun li and Juri are the true S tiers. Ryu will drop to A+. He does not dominate. Rufus might be S cuz he annihilates sum chars but dies to grapplers and sagat kinda badly.
Also Kaz jumping at Juri is legit…legitimately lame and stupid how she gets a full combo off an AA.
Alot of characters get full combo’s off an AA.
Off the top of my head:
Juri
Kaz
Jin
Asuka
Ken
Chun-Li
Says the guy who brags about 50% combos off of high step kick over and over lmao. Consistency aint your thing
So was Yun’s, but that didn’t stop it from being mad good.
I don’t know after watching Latif play Snake eyes I am not sure he even gets dominated by grapplers.
I was being facetious.
Hard to tell over the internet I know.
Also FUCK Rufus, the King’s reign is now.
Guile does too, as well as Xiayou off an AA sweep. Nina does as well, but a little harder to confirm. Almost the entire cast does