Okay yeah, I need to work Alpha Counters into my game plan. I’ve honestly been kinda’ ignoring them unintentionally. >.>
I kinda want to a see a consensus on Cammy. As far to my knowledge, Cammy seems to be the only character returning from SF4, that plays very little like her SF4 counterpart. I feel she seems to more of a close quarters fundamentals character, rather than a pure rushdown character like in SF4. Cammy seems to have a better neutral game this time around, especially with her MK to HK chain, which is safe and can lead to big damage with a launcher. Cammy also has some of the best jab pressure in the game, and it can be extremely annoying for the enemy to deal with. Her execution requirement seems to be drastically reduced, making her more in reach of average and novice players. Also, she doesn’t use meter nearly as much as SF4, and I do use meter it’ll be for Cross Cancels or EX Hooligan Combination. Cannon Strike also seems to be much less useful this time around, it’s used mostly to build meter for long range or for a cross up.
crossup jab jab jab, jab. walk back, opponent whiffs, jab, jab, boost combo. crossup, hk, sj cancel, dive kick/crossup, blah, blah.
The usefulness of Alpha counters depend 100% on the character. For example, Asuka’s sucks because it simply just knocks you down leading to 0 combos. Honestly I think someone should make an Alpha counter tier list.
Also the reason everyone bitches about Ryu is because he’s overpowered even though hes balanced on paper. Yeah hes solid, and average/above average in almost everything. But thats the problem. In a game where 75% of the cast have huge exploitable weaknesses, anyone who has no weakness is broken in comparison. So as a character by himself is he broken? No he isn’t. You can explain why by listing his frames and slow moves or whatever. But if you compare him to the rest of the characters (mostly tekken) hes broken as fuck. Same applies to Raven. They need nerfs so that them having a little bit of goodness in each area (or in Raven’s case, every area) doesn’t make matchups impossible for lower tiers. Its always easier to nerf than it is to buff sadly.
Just before anyone repeats that…
Ryu’s “frames” are the best in the game. Hands down.
He’s not even balanced on paper. He does everything, and he is either first or second best at everything, and he has no true weaknesses.
I beat good ryus, with Paul, just sayin. He’s totally beatable. As well as raven. He’s just a good character. But he’s far from unstoppable, same with raven, he’s great but there’s ways to get around his shenanigans too. Just gotta play smart and be creative.
I’ve never played a game where ryu is broken, this game included.
The alpha counters for both of my characters have no comboability except at the right range close to the corner, even then, its random luck. I still whore AC’s for its psychological value and the fact I deny my opponent any chance to mount an offense.
It’s not always about landing damage…
I didn’t say he was broken, I said he was very over powered, which is a statement I stand by.
Raven and Rufus are broken.
If you claim to have even hit Raven with Paul…
… Actually… I don’t believe you on that one, so never mind … 
It bugs me when people say things like this. Ok who exactly is this godlike Ryu you beat? Online means nothing,remember that. Especially with rollback nonsense. In addition just because you beat Ryu with Paul doesn’t make Ryu any less good or Paul any better. If I beat Wesker, Phoenix, and Zero does it make those characters suck?
Again not all ACs are worth it. I’d rather mash out EX Legs with Asuka simply because i can get a combo off of it instead of mashing an AC.
Oh no, I fully admit that raven > Paul. That would be foolish to think otherwise. But i definitely don’t feel hopeless. And the extra defensive options this game provides, keeps it like that.
I do play good ryus…latif for one. Also ive placed high in majors in the past to understand dynamics of matchups. And yes, ryu is strong. There’s no denying. But he ie completely beatable. Very average at best fb recovery. His fb dash cancels are -2 at best, meaning they are unsafe completely if fb cancelling off anything other than fierce or rh. And even then, if you hit buttons, he loses momentum. And rh joudan kick, every character has atleast 2 tactics that stop it. Dp tag cancel not safe. It goes on and on.
Beating a good ryu in any game just requires good gameplay. I mean, what really makes him fucking broken? I can think of like 10 characters that scare me more than ryu. He does everything decently, that’s it.
Not that I play this game…but Ibuki seems to play more like a variation of her 2I/3S counterpart than her SFIV version as well. I hated her SFIV version any ways. It made her too gimmicky and not as fundamental as she was in the older games.
This game is going to be more boring than it already is if Ryu gets nerfed to accommodate for how gimmicky and lacking in fundamentals the Tekken characters are. The game isn’t suddenly going to be more interesting to play when fundamentally lacking characters now have a better chance against Ryu. It’s just giving shitty characters more of a chance.
Ryu isn’t so bad. He’s annoying, but that’s because he has buttons. But overall when you tighten up your own fundamentals you can beat him. It’s always better for Ryu to be strong in a game. This means its a game where fundamentals are important.
Also the Tekken characters can play a ground game. I think people are just trying to be too gimmicky and not setting back and learning a punishment, spacing, and poking game with them. The Tekken characters lack a neutral game which is why you should pair them with a character who is stronger in that department.
Qft
This is very very true. Its why I place Lili or Asuka in spot 2 and put Juri or Abel in front.
So, true. I should have clarified my statement. But, I am 100% in agreement with Saber here. The ability to nullify an opponents pressure/attack from block has always been a sold option. Though it is true you can’t kill off a an alpha counter ( uncombed, iirc) they still do 120 damage, 90 ( or 100, can’t tell for sure) of which is unrecoverable.
Damage wise, alpha counters haven’t been this strong in a long while. Mostly for good reason, if you remember the alpha 1/2 days.
Agreed. Not debating here, but adding to general discussion.
Though Ryu “isn’t so bad” and is beatable. I think its important not to undervalue how strong he really is. I am not a “japan fan boy” but the Japanese tier lists are keeping him in S-tier, and for good reason. Watch vids of high level play: infiltration, -6, and Ryan Hunter and you can see how good he is. Honestly, he’s super solid all around with few holes. But again, he’s still very beatable.
Ryu’s ability to win is often reflected in the skills of the player playing him (even more so than with other characters) , a mediocre / semi advanced player will rarely get better than mediocre/ better than average results, even if Ryu is a S character in a game. Players have played against Ryu in many games, and the holes in his character design have remained fairly consistent over the years. Now an expert player will utilize all of Ryu’s tools properly and leave you very little room to work with, but that’s an extremely high level Ryu and rarely seen. (We are talking Valle/ Diago / Choi here). So even though he is very very good in SFxT, don’t think he’s broken by any means.
Your character POV is right on… Hit the nail on the head.
So Rufus divekick might be nerfed in an upcoming balance patch. Poor guy…
Fatboy, agreed 100%. Ryu has always been a symbol of fundamentals in sf, with ryu, its always about outplaying the player, never the character. I mean, who the hell doesn’t know how to fight a ryu by now? The underlying strategy to beat him hasn’t changed since 1991.
I hope divelick is nerfed. I’ve always taken a stance that divekicks don’t belong in sf oriented games. I’m mostly satisfied that its mostly just Rufus that has a true divekick. It was one of my biggest gripes in sf4, half the cast using divrkicks.
well donkey kick cancel has changed that a bit tho.
And like I said, every single character in the game had atleast 2 ways, MINIMUM,out of rh donkey kick.