Well, if you are playing the way I suggest, final smashes only appear in about half the games played, so its not something need to weigh as heavily as you would with say, Evo rules. I happen to think regular Samus is underrated anyway, but she and zamus do have fairly poor final smashes. I do not agree with Gannon becoming the worst, though, or even getting worse. Items help him, and his final smash is usable.
I just think that it’s a lot more difficult for Gannon to get to the items. It’s a lot easier for, say, Sonic or ROB or someone to do so due to speed or the ability to throw 219 things to deter the other person from going anywhere near the item. Gannon has to rely a little more on luck of the draw since he’s slow as sin. Not to mention he doesn’t fare too well on stages that require mobility. Him using his upB to move around Rumble Falls (no ledge) doesn’t look good for him, and if he doesn’t he stands a good chance of being left behind. And even if his Final Smash isn’t bad, I think he has a lot more difficulty either getting to it or, even if he does get near it, getting that hit in on it. It’s just an uphill battle for him no matter what you do. Counterpicks can help him to a degree, but once he wins a match he’ll get stage-counterpicked.
It’s personal opinion and I don’t have THAT much experience with All Brawl, but I really do think he becomes the worst character in the game in that setting. All Brawl TEAMS, however…that’s a different story.
And with Zamus/Samus, even if Final Smashes only appear in 1/2 of the games, you have to plan for it EVERY game. It’s a bad idea to RELY on the item distribution to be in your favor.
Oh definitely. It forces the player to know how to be effective with both S/Zamus, of course. I dont think that makes her any better/worse, though. I’d still peg her somewhere in the middle. But like i said, its all a lot closer together in all brawl. Good points on Gannon. Now if we can get people to play, maybe we can actually find out.
hur hur hur not really, I have played enough with both characters and ZSS>>>Samus, but is trickier to play due to her having acual functioning combos, but anyways when we play with smash balls on I just master the art of instatly turning back into ZSS and good times.
I don’t have a ton of 1v1 exp with items on with ganon but, from my experances in 2v2 and FFA it would be quite bad, cause ganon can accually win sometimes, mainly cause he is like a 
Ike, and you mess up twice and you die, plus he has a pretty damn good mixup game, and 2 different spikes + a suicide.
^ And this is why I like playing Samus in all-Brawl. They have a very unique contrast to eachother that just doesn’t translate when playing them alone. Not to mention the opponent has to take into account both instead of just one. A switch to ZSS mid-battle when one is in the habit of fighting normal Samus can throw someone off. This is, of course, on top of having to deal with a final smash before it happens instead of a far more punishable transform flash.
I thought items appeared next to the players most of the time? So speed shouldn’t be too much of an issue (except for smash balls), but being controlled by spam or by someone’s else’s speed would make it harder for sure to get items.
Edit: I guess by functioning combos you mean “a chance to have some ok setup of which to follow attacks with” cause as far as I know ZZS only has one guarenteed combo. After dsmash, dsmash to any move.
Yes, Sonic is not that good, but he should at least be on top of the low tier. There’s no way he is that much lower than Ike or Bowser. Those two characters don’t belong in the mid tier. This is coming from someone who finds Bowser fun to use, btw.
That’s like the main thing that bugs me. The other one is that Meta Knight is grouped with other characters in the same tier list. I thought it was unanimous that he was his own tier. I guess I was wrong.
Snake is still a tricky matchup for MK… I don’t think he’s in his own tier but I do think he should remain on top for the time being.
The only thing I don’t like about Final Smases is the ZSS / Samus transformation when activating. I use ZSS a lot and that just kills the fun for me since I never enjoyed playing Samus even back in the 64/melee days.
^ Wasn’t 64 Samus one of the worst characters in the game though by a large margin? Brawl Samus is still better than she was in 64; it’s just that she (and Peach to some extent, apparently) got nerfed to hell out of the “top tier” from last game when most of the people that needed to be nerfed got buffed/didn’t really change and benefit from the new game’s system.
I mean, if Samus hadn’t gotten nerfed to hell, then Spamus would probably very close to the bottom of top tier even with the amount of people with reflectors that have superior projectiles (read: too many since Nintendo knows nothing about fighting games).
However, I’ll stop before I start ranting again, especially since I’ve been out of the loop and haven’t played anyone online in forever.
…So, when did Toon Link fall so low? I had a feeling he was going to fall due to the way some of his moves hit, but what exactly booted him that far out of top tier after so many were going “ZOMG! TOON LINK IS DAT [Insert Rhyming Racial Slur Here]!”?
P.S. I still find it odd that in item-less play ZSS is so low. In item-play/“All-Brawl”, I could understand since she easily has the worst Final Smash in the game in terms of sheer damage and range and lag and vulnerability before even counting that Varia Suit Samus, even if you don’t think she’s complete garbage–I’ve lightened up on my past sense a bit, but I think the list has her placed right–or close it, is definitely the worse character (and I don’t see this changing with items on, unlike maybe with Sheik being better than Zelda with items on due to Sheik’s greater speed).
Oh well, at least Varia Suit Samus’s Final Smash is decent even if it’s still vulnerable as fuck towards the end like all of the transformation-sequences in the game there aren’t Final Smashes only.
P.P.S. I still don’t really see how Metaknight is touchable, but meh.
It’s not that I think Samus is as bad as she was in 64, I just really don’t like her playstyle in any of the Smash games. She’s one of the few characters I never wanted to learn at all.
He, along with a bunch of other initially-awesome characters (i.e. Pit, Zelda, Wolf, etc.) started dropping once Meta Knight and Snake started skyrocketing (I think?). He may sound good on paper, but poor tourney results prevent him from being up there. Hardly anyone uses him at a high level, and even less actually place.
wow, you really missed out on a great character in melee.
i can honestly say that she is the most interesting character in the whole game. my main was usually GaW, which is a usual shuffl-char, but she had a game that was so different from the rest of the cast.
just from her insane sex-kick, to her insanely situational grab, to her incredibly fun super wavedash (if you don’t know what this is… look it up).
over to the tier list:
game and watch top? HAHA, YES YES YES YES. Uair-refresh for the WIN.
Yeah I know about her super wave dash and her sex kick, maybe it was because I never took her to a high level I never appreciated how fun she could be? dunno
cause he was never that good, ppl hyped him so much and I tried playing as him and I was like yeah he is okay, but he just didn’t seem to be OMG, but then again I still don’t see MK as OMG either, actually I don’t see anyone as an overall overkill char but their are some nasty matchups for a lot of the cast, I think thats why MK is top, cause of his lack of any real terrible matchups, see DeDeDe for snake.
and about samus, are you forgeting land canceling missles on pokemon stadium 
. learned that one after some tourny player lol killed me a round.
Ohh and Wolf is still awesome just I think too many ppl played him in the tournies that didn’t know him well enough. And pit SCREW PIT he is still the gayest most annoying character in the game, he isn’t the best but he damn well messes up my ZSS, why do all of his A attacks class with my over B, B, d-tilt,and sometimes even up B, not to mention his dodge is one of the faster ones in the game. some chars don’t really have any problem against him, see all of top tier.
don’t flame me on this but Im already predicting MK to lose his top position, to someone else, probably will not drop off top tier.
How so? Is this just some kind of feeling or is there anything to back this up? Cause like there is alot of proof of MK (right now) being top tier. Tornado alone shuts down alot of characters.
Eh, I prefer ours.
Link?
I’m interested to see it.
Basically. I love, love, LOVE playing as Samus in every Smash game, although I only main her in Brawl(Peach/Marth in Melee, Mario in 64). She has a consistently unique playstyle in every game she’s in. I think that as time goes by, Samus will see a lot more love in Brawl.
i like DK where he is
called that shit from the get go
oh and hi guys, long time no see