Well, in some games, you can double-block which is frowned on by many players. Also, some games all kinds of weird things can happen in games that weren’t programmed to handle SOCDs like crashing, and walking forwards while charging. Chicken guarding becomes broken in games with air blocking that don’t have guard breaks, as the only threat is the air throw. Teching the throw becomes too easy because all you would need to do is hit a button [I’d bait the tech, and then punish the attack thrown personally].
I have questions about whether or not SOCDs are cheating myself, and have that lean, so I like the idea of eliminating them. The advantages of the SOCD cleaner are quite desirable anyways. Furthermore, most pads put a certain level of priority so that commands from one directional movement system are always taken over commands from the other. In MvC2 for Dreamcast, I think the analog stick’s actions take precedence over the D-pad.
I guess people are too brainless to take into account that an anti-ghosting keyboard would allow SOCD entry.
Actually, now that I think about it, SOCDs that cause weird, undesirable things to happen are more the fault of a shit programmer, and not of the person who’s able to take advantage of it. It’s almost the responsibility of the player to exploit this to his benefit. It should be the responsibility of the developer to consider and deal with this shit. If they don’t, then we should be able to exploit them should we chose to depending on the circumstances. I choose not to.
Everyone should be able to use any control scheme they desire so long as that control scheme isn’t playing the game for the player [Program pads, etc…]. Otherwise you eliminate certain sections of the community unnecessarily that can benefit it.
I’m a new to using a hitbox (with SOCD) with AE. I really enjoy the concept of it, but am having some seemingly random behavior with certain inputs. I’ve spent a bit of time in training mode with inputs showing, and I haven’t been able to explain what’s happening. Can you help me figure it out?
I have only gotten fireballs to come out with 236+p, not 26+p, and this is consistent. However, when I go for supers and ultras, I have less consistent results:
23236+p, 236236+p always work for super/ultra.
2626+p seems to work half of the time, the other half of the time yielding a dp. Perhaps the timing affects what comes out? Or does the training mode input not always display what is actually input if it happens too quickly? I’ve also tried the new SOCD ultra tech posted recently to get 2626+p, and still get the same inconsistent results.
If you could explain what is going on and/or share your relevant experiences, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
There are several shortcuts for ultra. So :d::df::d::df::f works, and :d::df::d::f: is a slightly more efficient (but awkward) motion for ultra. I just focused in on the :d::f::d::f: shortcut because of the efficiency, simplicity, and use in FADC combos without letting go of :f:.
There’s one caveat to it that I didn’t focus on long enough in the tutorial, and that’s that the shortcut only works if there are no neutral inputs accidentally entered. It’s a bit tricky because the input history doesn’t show “neutral” as an input in SSFIV, but it affects the shortcut nonetheless.
If you get an EX dp, then you accidentally hit +:f: at some point while you were either hitting the diagonal or releasing the diagonal. Because :f::d::f::d:N:f: won’t work. To stop this and get your walking ultra to come out 99% you need to be very crisp and fast on the diagonal. Once you know why it’s not coming out all the time it’s much easier to make the adjustment.
Another option is to purposefully teach yourself to “roll” your fingers away from the diagonal. You can program your fingers to do the entire motion just off of the negative edge. Your fingers will be entering :f:(hold) :db::db:(tap) but the input history reads a perfect QCFx2.
I hope that makes sense. Just aim for perfect diagonals.
Wait… I didn’t know you could negative edge Directional inputs!!. So this would only work if you input the diagonal perfectly? this means you can do super motion with one button press if you hold forward?! yikes, cant wait to test this when I get home. So im thinking feilong cr mp into super would be walk forward (6) press 1+2+mp, Release 1+2+mp and that should work yea?
You have to finish the super once you let go :d: so the direction defaults itself back to :f:, finishing your motion. Then you press MP. But yeah you can definitely buffer the first half of the motion anywhere; before your confirm, during your footsies, etc.
I don’t think it’s the literal definition of negative edge, but it’s the same concept of letting go of one button to trigger an input. +:d:+:f:, :d:+:f:, :f: is a hadoken strictly from removing your fingers in the correct order.
Same thing with the ultra shortcut. You don’t have to have a ‘perfect’ diagonal so long as it slants towards the proper motion on negative edge, rather than the other way which will get you neutral inputs.
If you want to incorporate negative edge motions into your game, you can practice “counter plinking” to master the art of hitting your directional motions one frame after the other with negative edge release. If you learn it, it can potentially give you optimal inputs with less finger motions involved if you use more of a wrist pivot on release. I use it for Tekken wavedash and Viper seismo spam in UMvC3 to reduce my workload on fast repetitive motions; make a roll feel like tapping a diagonal. Right now I’m mastering walking SOCD :f::d::df: in UMvC3 to give myself a reactionary dragon punch at what feels like holding forward with the tap of a diagonal. Nothing can match that speed except SSFIV shoryuken shortcuts.
Imagine how rude that SOCD uppercut would be for someone like Zero with a charged buster. We’re talking invincible DP death. That or Genmu-Zero [level 3 hyper].
Side note: I think it goes without saying that you can do SOCD shortcuts for the 323 uppercut. DF, DFB, DF+attack in SSF4
Im quiete new to the game 'n genre (1 year) but made good progress…
until my postman delivered me my hitbox couple of days ago.
started with fight stick from day 1 i got infected early that last year as soon as i saw it. and now ive got one on my own.
problem is that love-hate with that thing.
i cant imagine inputs that simple, clean yet easy (theoretically) like on hitbox. (im sorry for some proto-type’ish phrases by my bad english having fun messing around with)
but i also couldnt imagine before, how hard it is to learn!
…lost the track a little bit…
what i actually wanted to know with this post is, if THAT thread right here is the right place for any questions that WILL pop up in my hitbox-learning-process.
because i need help.
after just 4 sessions i was on the edge selling it again and i believe i wont stand the hitbox due to believings i wont do as well with single fingers than a complete grip on those fight stick sticks =)
wow…does my sentences make still any sense. looks awkward ^^
anyhoe…
do you guys think it is 100% possible to switch to hitbox like it should be the case from pad to stick for example.
or do you think not everybody can play piano (i feel like the are similarities in the challenge between piano and hitbox ^^ ).
those who think so, what do you think is the reason for the fact that the hitbox is quiete unpopular? with those input-possibilities and other advantages (cheaper to build, harder to break, easier to carry)?!
i mean common! it has to do something with the individual ability to move those two crytical fingers independently.
or is that just my excuse for my laziness? (plz tell me it is, i wanna be a hitboxer ^^ )
thanks!
ps: no preview of my post, too not-sober to NOT change my mind about that look of my awkward sentences what would just cause even more effort than that text did (im a foreigner)
new idea!
=)
can you tell me some good loops to practise in order to get to know my new controller a little bit?
real fights havend helped so far since ive got general problems with hitbox inputs like no special is ever coming out after succesfull links but hot air.
i feel like doing that SOCD-loop now…
even more depressed cause looks like im too stupid =(
SOCD doesnt work for me like in the video.
it doesnt cancel my focus attack by holding :f: and just tap + FA
but thats how i understand the technique.
but going through fireballs for example for me works only if i do
holding :f: THEN FA + (RELEASING :f: ) THEN :f: again
so i have to let go :f: , cannot just hold it and tap
okay.
found out that my dualstrike PCB cant handle SOCD. im not getting neutral when pushing back and forward the same time.
so im less stupid than i thought last night.
but i am still seeking for help and discussion about that hitbox thingy =)
my worst enemy so far is one of the most basic thing of all basics ^^
what i try to reconstruct in training room is the situation when you crouch in front of the other player and do confirming jabs to link into a fireball.
now…with arcadestick i can do that easily out of crouch blocking because the stick just allows an smooth motion with all needed directions (its at least by far the easiest method since its something circle-ish and therefore smooth).
but with hitbox and (now the correct) socd correction ive found out three different methods to do the same thing mentioned before.
i would like to know (and still hoping theres gonna be somebody i can talk with about the hitbox) if you can tell more ways, which you prefer and why.
in case of evil ryu:
just crouch before other player WITHOUT blocking (no :db: ) and do: CRLP , CRLP , CRMP + FORWARD (now :d: + :f: which gives :df: ) and THEN release DOWN the same time you push a PUNCH-button for the projectile.
–> this had been the method i chose in the first place to get to know the hitbox and its rythm. but it came to my mind that i did that on stick always out of crouching block which is much safer if u mess up the chain. so i tried to figure out a solution, a safer method, out of crouch blocking and i found two more ways…
crouchblock before other player (so :db: this time) and do: CRLP , CRLP , few frames before i hit the link CRMP i release the BACK button (so just before the link its just :d: ) and when i actually hit the plinked CRMP i also push FORWARD (now :d: + :f: which gives :df: ) and THEN release DOWN the same time you push a PUNCH-button for the projectile. [copypasted after the plink]
crouchblock before the other player (so :db: this time as well) and do: CRLP , CRLP, few frames before i hit the link CRMP im pushing also forward (now its + :d: + :f: which then gives :df: ) and THEN when i actually hit the plinked CRMP i simultaneously release the BACK button (now its just :d: + :f: again) and THEN i release the DOWN button the same time im pushing a PUNCH-button for the projectile.
I prefer the second version yet, because its easier for me than to go with the third method.
thats bothering me the most since its so basic.
any thoughts about that?
thx for listening
ps: no preview, its too late ^^ hope the text isnt too buggy ^^
I guess you have to work with what’s comfortable. You can type it out, you can one-finger slide twice, or you can two-finger (index+ring) slide. I’ve been going for one-finger slide x2 these days.
I find that I have to wear gloves to keep from damaging my fingers- it decreases friction and makes the slide easier, but I lose some tactile sensory information.
The two-finger slide is kind of awkward for me- I find I have to use my pinky instead of my ring finger, since there’s a tendency for me to slide through once, and then while that finger is still on back, put my following finger on forward, which SOCD cancels into nothing, which ends up flubbing the input.
Using index finger for 1P and 2P, sliding twice, seems to be the most consistent for me.
how does the hitbox work for games that offer little or no input shortcuts, like 3rd strike and super turbo?
half circle motions have to be executed at a certain pace - not too fast, but not too slow, when playing on the keyboard. Im wondering if the hitbox is any different
When i first saw SSf4 group of videos, i drooled on the idea that i could have that level of execution that easy
I’m a pad player, and had a stick for a long time, and tried god knows how many times to stick with arcade stick, and always went back to pad … long story short, i hated the pad, but had to use it.
I have a hitbox for 2 weeks now, and right of the bat, things i could not even imagine doing on a pad, i started doing on a hitbox after literally 5 minutes. Down side is, things i did with ease on a pad give me headache on hitbox, but i’m getting there, and i will rule
Anyway, i found this by accident with just playing around in practice mode, and i had to share it here, since this was never mentioned in videos ( and i know all of them by heart ), and it’s definitely worth it.
In Seth’s trial 15 ( cr lk, cr lp, DP … ) i never got to DP, because super always comes out instead. There are no words to describe how mad i was, but then i found it. A new way to do double qcf ultras and supers, from crouching position. All you have to do is just tap forward twice as fast as you can, and let go of down + all 3 punches/kicks. It comes out every time … pure HYPE
In my opinion, it beats SOCD ultras, simply because there are less buttons to press, and you don’t have to worry about pressing back first instead of down in plink, and especially useful for characters whose ultras are done in opposite directions from opponent.
So, press and hold down, tap forward twice, let go of down + all 3 kicks/punches
P.S.
Hitbox rule
23236 ultra- I guess you could call it the “big brother” of the 323 Shoryuken shortcut.
Assuming 1P side; hold 2 with the middle finger, tap 6 once with the index, then tap and hold 6 again while releasing 2 and press PPP/KKK.
Input display looks like this:
2326 ultra works too… sometimes. I think? It’s not always consistent for me, try it out.
You’re not exactly in defensive crouch, but like the 323 Shoryuken, you do stay crouching until… well, theoretically, the last frame (if you push 6+PPP/KKK simultaneously).
It’s a lot cleaner visually- you don’t bob up and down like a maniac,
so it could be a better way of hiding things.
Of course, you’re talking about just whipping raw ultra out of your pants, but…
Probably known to most people, but you can delay the period between inputting the motion and pressing the attack buttons, so you can walk forward a teensy-tiny bit before executing. Not a whole lot (definitely not like the walking SOCD ultra), but it’s there.
(ed. SF4ComboTrainer says you can hold the last input for about 15 frames. So, just a little-itty bit.)
I think it is easier to do than the double 236236 roll or SOCD ultra… Maybe a little more lenient when done carefully.
+:f: at some point while you were either hitting the diagonal or releasing the diagonal. Because :f::d::f::d:N:f: won’t work. To stop this and get your walking ultra to come out 99% you need to be very crisp and fast on the diagonal. Once you know why it’s not coming out all the time it’s much easier to make the adjustment.
