One or two pages stay on the screen long enough to interrupt what the opponent is doing. So, if I do High Paperwork L and Dante does Stinger to go through it, he’ll get hit by a few pages that stinger missed completely if he continues.
I need the patch…
I’ve got news (speculation based on experience :P) on the evidence collecting issue. I don’t think it works based on a frame timer at all. On the contrary, I think the evidence you get is predetermined before the match and does not involve frames or timing or anything of the sort. I played 19 online games against a friend and this is what happened:
My team was always Modok / Hsien Ko / Phoenix Wright.
The first 5 matches or so he had Chun-Li / Modok / Sentinel. We always pressed rematch right after the match was over.
I always got vase, watch, folder, in that order. (low, mid, high folder)
I did get bad pieces of evidence and meat and it was always the same bad pieces of evidence and always in the same order of appearance (the button pressed did matter. The timing did not).
The rest of the matches my friend used Modok / Doom / Sentinel. Needless to say, we got sent back to the character select screen. I didn’t change my team.
This time I always got vase, folder, knife. (I don’t remember which buttons)
I also got bad evidence and meat here, more so than the matches before. It was also the same amount of bad pieces of evidence and meat every time (I don’t remember which bad pieces of evidence I got). Later in the match I realized what was happening and, since I didn’t find the folder to be very useful against my friend, I began throwing it right away so I could get another more useful good piece of evidence. Afterwards I always got like 4 pieces (don’t remember the exact number) of bad evidence until I got the photo. It was always the photo.
So there you go. Hopefully this clarifies some doubts. The evidence shows that the order in which the pieces of evidence appear is reset once you go back to the select screen, at least online. Don’t know how it works offline or in training mode. It probably works differently, but I wouldn’t know why. It seems unlikely to me that I always pressed the exact same buttons at the exact same time every match, but it might have happened (one of those unique occurrences in a million years XD). If you guys have any questions just post them, I’ll try to answer.
Try that in vs and see what happens. Honestly, after trying it myself I’m almost certain it’s based on when you search after the last evidence draw.
Edit: Thinking again, the fact that you get pre-determined sets online at all would support that theory. What’s the greatest issue when playing online? Frame inconsistency. How would you solve a case where a character’s game mechanic is based on ‘just-frame’ actions, yet it will be used online? Pre-determined data sets for use with the mechanic.
Changing the gathering for evidence mechanic entirely just for online play seems kinda like too much trouble for Capcom. I think it’s more likely that it was a bug, I just don’t know if it’s triggered just by playing online or if it’s a bug at all. Sadly this happened last week when I still had access to the game, so I can’t continue testing it right now T_T.
I haven’t read through all the pages, but has this been put up?
[media=youtube]YuY9emn_F-4[/media]
I’d like to think it’s the same throughout, but I can’t really make that assumption. I can try testing offline versus tonight for what it’s worth. I take it you just jumped in and started getting evidence, right? As I stated earlier from my Training Mode run, I got the same magic set of evidence whenever I refreshed the Training Mode session (which I guess is like hitting “Rematch” in Versus). The whole “Pre-loaded Evidence” theory (as I call it) actually WOULD explain this strange match:
[media=youtube]uYXKsZLLSJU[/media]
Please, do test it 
I’m very curious to know how it goes.
As for my game behavior, Phoenix Wright was always in the third slot. Some times I tagged him in or DHCed into him. I didn’t start getting evidence right away because most of the time I couldn’t. I lost PW in some matches before I got all the pieces of evidence, but I still got the same first ones.
Edit Additional Notes: I was on an Xbox. I also rewatched some offline matches posted here and it doesn’t seem to work the same way it did with me. Hopefully your tests throw some light on this matter.
I would agree if it wasn’t for a character that has his own full-on game mechanic. Can already confirm that PW isn’t a joke character based on the evidence mechanic (too much work for a character just to be a joke), so I don’t see why the devs wouldn’t go as far as changing the mechanic for inconsistent online matches.
Yeah, so after running matches in vs, anytime I got a chance to do three straight evidence pulls PW picked up either 2 good/1 bad or 3 good straight. It was a toss-up whenever I could only pull one in separate cases. I figure that IReid’s vid is correct.
IDK, I find it hard to believe that evidence is preloaded now. Doesn’t seem to be the case in offline VS mode at least (sure there were some cases where evidence/slots matched, but not many). I haven’t played against another PW online though…
Legend
[details=Spoiler]0 Meat
1 Photo
2 Vase
3 Folder
4 Watch
5 Knife
6 Cell
7 Ox Head
8 Shades
9 Bonsai Tree
10 Plunger
11 Servbot
12 Bottle
Rematch = Finish them off and both players select “Rematch”[/details]
Set 1
[details=Spoiler][SPOILER=Player 1]
1/0/3 (11)
6/3/12
8/4/6
Rematch
5/10/3
0/4/2 (6)
3/5/12
1/2/3
6/4/3
2/0/4 (0, 6)
6/4/3
0/3/6 (4)
Rematch
3/1/10
3/0/6 (0, 4)
11/8/3
6/3/0 (5)
Rematch
1/4/7
4/6/5
8/0/4
10/4/11
0/3/7 (9)
1/5/0 (4)[/details]
Player 2
Spoiler
1/5/3
6/11/4
2/12/1
Rematch
1/4/0 (12)
11/6/4
1/4/12
0/6/1 (5)
3/2/6
2/3/12
8/2/1
12/10/3
9/2/6
6/2/1
Rematch
0/10/9 (0, 1)
11/0/3 (0, 2)
12/3/1
6/11/4
Rematch
12/10/3
1/3/7
1/4/0 (3)
3/2/5
11/6/1
11/10/1[/details]
Set 2
[details=Spoiler][SPOILER=Player 1] 9/0(4)/0(3)
6/0/1 (7)
3/4/5
4/2/7
0/4/2 (1)
6/3/1
2/9/5
8/7/2
1/6/2
3/1/5
4/5/0 (1)
2/7/6
6/3/0 (0, 2)
Rematch
0(3)/0(8)/1
8/5/3
5/4/3
5/6/1
4/12/5
5/3/10
3/6/1
5/1/6
4/8/0
4/1/12
10/0/3 (1)
12/1/11
1/3/5
6/2/4
1/6/0 (5)
2/6/1
Rematch
1/8/5
5/3/11
1/6/4
5/6/2
2/4/9
0(0,5)/2/0(1)
6/5/4
0(2)/0(4)/3
Rematch
3/5/6
3/5/8
1/3/5
4/3/1[/details]
Player 2
[details=Spoiler]9/0/1 (3)
11/0/4 (2)
6/4/0 (2)
3/5/12
9/3/4
5/1/0 (10)
2/9/1
5/7/6
2/7/3
10/0(1)/0(4)
5/3/10
1/10/12
8/0/5 (3)
Rematch
6/2/5
0/5/1 (11)
10/8/2
9/3/0 (8)
12/5/1
2/12/0 (6)
3/10/4
5/0/12 (3)
0/1/11 (2)
3/4/1
11/5/1
3/11/0 (6)
9/1/6
6/4/7
5/4/2
1/3/5
Rematch
8/12/4
5/0/3 (7)
0/6/9
3/5/11
7/5/6
6/1/11
6/0/1 (9)
7/6/2
Rematch
9/10/5
9/6/8
3/4/2
5/1/6[/details]
[/details]
Ah! Excellent. Thanks view and Dazed for checking that out I now wish to know if what happened to me happens regularly in online matches…but then again it might not really matter since it works ok offline and that’s where it matters most. As to what caused me to get the same pieces of evidence, I might have an answer. It seems to me that the frame timer, which cycles through a predetermined set of evidences that includes all of them in different orders every time, simply froze and did not reset after hitting rematch (when it usually does). The end result was that I was getting the same pieces of evidence, whether good or bad, in the same order and in the same buttons every match (since I usually do the L version, then the M version, then the H version. Maybe there’s a set of evidences for each button?), if that’s even how it actually works :looney:
So, coming to a conclusion based on consistent, offline evidence pulls. Looking at the way all of Wright’s move animations continue after recovery, I’m guessing that the evidence mechanic works by cycling through good evidence during a set number of frames after recovery. So, if you start with Maya :l:, then immediately go with three nearly perfect evidence searches you’re almost guaranteed a good set. Same possibly goes for doing stand :l:, then immediately going for three evidence searches as the move recovers.
I’ll try to figure out how to pull specific pieces so players can actually make a custom PW for specific teams/play-styles starting tomorrow.
Edit: Picked up a copy today. Found some good zoning tech to capitalize on evidence/paper hits. I’ll just put what I think is most important for now:
-
All direct evidence cause a soft knockdown (knife, watch, phone, photo but may not allow the juggle), allowing PW to juggle into a photo for around 160k - 1902k on confirm.
-
AA evidence pieces (folder, vase) cause enough hit stun on an aerial opponent to allow PW to juggle with jump :h: :h: :s: and continue into a ground loop. Paperwork also causes large enough hit stun for this, and tends to linger longer than you would think.
-
Investigation may actually be under-rated (by me at least). With the right assists, any grab can convert into Maya OTG and a full combo into Judge for at least 400k - 450k. Back throws (air and ground) seem to cover this purpose well. You just need an assist that stays out for a while (I use Strange’s Eye).
-
Hold It seems to be the key to damage with Trial Wright. By poking with one or two and keeping the opponent’s stun gauge up, you can easily tack on additional hits past the deterioration point of most combos, then land a Hold It for the stun, launch and continue into Judge for over 600k + for one meter easy. Also possible to throw three Hold Its in a combo and do good damage from there. Find a way to add an assist near the end for more hits and the final Hold It.
-
Maya and Judge are amazing DHC starters (if I haven’t said this enough). An overhead, grab, or raw Maya AA/Judge DHC into any kind of short duration Hyper can yield much greater damage than the straight DHC into a more straight-forward hyper (example, hit Judge into Gold Armour Arthur instead of Goddess Bracelet).
-
Evidence still comes up good when pulled/thrown multiple times in a row. I’m having trouble drawing bad evidence/meat atm.
-
Stand :l: has a decent AA hit-box, but the lower portion is garbage. Stick to low :l: for pressure instead. Also make use of Trial crouching normals into paper for frame traps as well.
-
Anytime Trial Wright gets a hit, you should tack on at least one Hold It to push the stun up. Hold It looks like the most important part of PW close range pressure, as enough stacked can easily lead to death with a damaging DHC combo. Jump back Hold It -> :s: seems to be a good poking tool with the recovery being swapped with the :s: for a much safer poke.
I’ll be in the lab all week. Expect more info later.
Also, overhead damage optimization. Slip-Up xx Switch to Investigation (confirm), call Maya plus assist, launch into air combo, land into Judge (DHC if necessary). Raw judge is about 500k - 550k depending on the assist.
Played PW at a local today. I ran Nem/PW/Hawk, and after Nem DHC into PW’s Maya super you can do a st. L into air grab on forward/backwards tech. People were running into air Hold It a lot but I didn’t have a way to capitalize off of it, and I couldn’t get a stun off of it.
Edit: Thinking of replacing Hawk with Strider. I’m scared to play a low life character and I’ll miss zoning with Hawkeye, but the Strider assist is a much better assist for both Nem and PW. Plus Strider is still a good xf anchor.
I’ve actually played around with that same team. Nemesis can DHC to PW with either lvl 1, and hawkeye alpha assist is great. I enjoy playing hawkeye too. He’s a great anchor with a lot of fun tricks.
Putting nemesis first is good too, since he can take quite a beating.
I’m contemplating on changing Hawkeyes assist to the Poison Tip, since that OTGs. I want this because I can do TOD combos with Nem that DHC into Wright for the kill to get around 5 evidence. It also gives me better combos from PW’s grabs, and allows me to continue off an air grab reset after SSMS for more damage. The problem is PW assist is going to become the assist used to get it in, which is risky, but in the end this could be worth it. Nem has a decent time getting in on his own anyways.
I hope this isn’t old information, I was just messing around with the judge hyper and here’s stuff that I found.
DHC opportunity
.Seems to be that before Wright hits the ground he can DHC to another teammate and the incoming teammate gets a small invulnerability frame.
Eats beam hypers (for example:Ryu’s Shinku Hadouken, Dormamu’s Chaotic Flames)
.After the gravel hits the beam hyper is eaten so you can safely DHC or xfactor and tag out. (Works at all range)
.There’s no limit on how much projectile it eat. (It can eat Dormammu’s dark flare and chaotic flame at the same time)
.However it doesn’t seem to eat volley hypers (example Arthur’s Goddess Bracelet, Doctor Doom’s Photon Array), though you can have Wright fly through most of the projectiles then DHC into another partner.
Beats all hypers
.It’s possible to hit Dark Phoenix out of the burst but the judge has to be used before the burst comes out.
.Wright seems to be invulnerable to all hypers in the game when using the judge.
.
Yeah from what I’ve come to understand, online player matches give you a preloaded evidence set that will persist as long as you rematch. When you go back to the character select screen they give you a new one. So if you’re in player matches against someone who doesn’t know and your first 3 evidence pieces are solid…rematch as much as you can lol
As for versus/training/arcade/online lobbies, the evidence seem to go by numbers
Pretty sure someone commented about it eating beams already since it’s familiar info (to me at least anyway), but it’s nice to see it again.
Though this post inspired me to start a recollection of all the relevant Wright info and have it sit in one spot of a thread, using Karticles’ guide thing as a base. We have lots of little notes (such as the findings in Operator’s post) but not only is it all over the place, shit gets drowned away. This will be posted in the eventual reworked matchup thread, which yeah will also be updated with the stuff that was discussed there.
With that said I was wondering if we could some of the more technical notes like frame data? Since I don’t have the guide. S:
Mad late lol, but nice that you repped the lawyer. How did you do?
I was playing against another Phoenix Wright in online and we both got the same pieces of evidence just in different slots.