Considering the amount of luck and hard work needed, nerfing this assist is indeed a complete mess of stupidity. However, there are ways to nerf it and still make Wright players like us happy… and that’s to BUFF other parts of him.
Increased hitbox range on normals, decreased chances on getting bad evidence, and having the assist retain some armor rather than invincibility would be a better idea. However, if all they are planning to do is just remove the invincibility (which is only from the front, mind you), and call it a day… then that, my friends, is going to kill the character. Half of what makes TB mode so good is the assist, which benefits EVERY team.
Oh well… maybe we’ll still have invincible paperwork?
Don’t panic unless the nerf actually happens. Until then, be sure you can use your other two team members. That way, you just move to paperwork storm instead of break the witness if it’s nerfed. People worrying too soon.
TBH I think that if TM does get nerfed they would probably get rid of the invun on both assists. But if Break the Witness keeps that awesome hitbox, I’ll keep using it, even if Invun is gone.
Let’s think about this. Does PW’s design and “feel” really seem to fit as an assist character? I say no. It’s obvious Capcom put a ton of time fine-tuning him for an incredibly specific playstyle; even back on Day 1 PW having the best assist in the game was a nice but honestly strange plus. Yeah whatever, Capcom nerfs the assist (which is still a rumor, kids), and I think that’d be fair. I also predict some other fair, slight, but valuable buffs helping PW better fit his purpose.
Like extending the range of his normals? No, don’t be silly, he’s a lawyer. It’s supposed to be hilarious that he’s smacking demons around with court papers. You’re not supposed to out-prioritize with normals, that doesn’t fit his style. Infinite Turnabout? Forget it, again that doesn’t make sense with the character. Getting to that adrenaline-pumping moment is what the PW games are all about, yet that lasts for a few minutes max. PW would again violate his design and become the new Dark Pheonix (hey that’s actually…funny), and everyone would start snapping him in like the old DP/current Wesker.
All PW needs modified is the evidence gathering process. A totally random character can’t be competitive; so many matches I’ll create great openings with good use of Maya, assists, combos, etc, yet will still draw 5 pieces of junk in a row. That can’t stay. The randomness does fit his character, but it just gets ridiculous at times. All PW needs:** only let him get 1-2 bad evidences max per Turnabout**. That’s it.
There are a few other bits I’d find very nice. Like get rid of the file and the photo / always get the phone or knife. Give him an OTG or something to combo from Slip-up in Turnabout without meter. Let him stun quicker in Investigation with Hold It! (stun with three hits, more is ridiculous). And geez this would be fantastic: let maya RUN OFF THE BLOODY STAGE FASTER. Investigation PW is in for a rough time if your opponent knows how to abuse her slow plod across the screen. My favorite: DON’T let him get command-grabbed through Maya’s Shield; so many characters can do so many mean things with it. Just a few ideas.
I’d feel better if they did this to him. I do like TA Wright on point rather than as an assist, but I just feel like I’m partly wasting the effort if I don’t use him as an assist before it runs it. Also take out the meat, or make that really unlikely too.
Let’s be real. Wright as an all out point character is really bad. Investigation mode has no ability to fight at all really, and even in trial mode with three good evidence he’s still bottom 5 if you actually intend to beat opponents. Turnabout mode is really awesome and on point is definitely more dangerous than everyone except Dark Phoenix, but the problem is that much like gold armor Arthur he’s not really a rushdown character so even though his timer is long it’s still very realistic to time it out since he can chip you to death but has little chance to open someone up. Someone who just super jumps around blocking their heart out is going to be pretty hard for Wright to kill before Turnabout runs out, and once it does and Wright hasn’t even given a single character’s life in value, his team that was probably built completely to support him is almost assuredly going to lose. The reason Wright is so good is completely because of that assist; with the assist, Wright can virtually defeat entire teams by entering Turnabout, and that kind of power is the only kind of power that justifies the effort and the very real fact that you’re investing your entire team build into supporting it with the very real fact that if Wright dies without entering Turnabout you’re like a Phoenix player that got early snap killed which means you know what for your win chances. I’m not even sure how it seems contrary to his design to use Wright like this; he’s a redux of the Dark Phoenix design except he’s team oriented instead of built to be the last man standing which is an interesting twist. To show how he’s dominating the match off-point, his Turnabout theme continues to play when he’s the assist showing that he’s the one running the match regardless of who the point characters are. If we want to use silly Ace Attorney style logic, then when he enters Turnabout his case has come together, his opponent is cornered, and all elements of his team (analagous to the evidence) work together with him to “convict” the opponent (make them lose). I honestly can’t imagine Capcom having intended Wright to be used otherwise, and if they did, they just got really lucky in having such a good, coherent design emerge by accident.
In order to be viable without that assist, making serial bad evidence/meat pulls not happen any more would be a mere start; Turnabout would need to be endless (except after landing level 3) so running from it wouldn’t be viable anymore. Again if you want to use the silly Ace Attorney logic, time wasting arguments from the witness/prosecutor never helped them once Wright had them. The effort required to activate Turnabout is comparable to Dark Phoenix so Wright has to be as rewarding or more in order to be viable. I really do hope that Capcom wouldn’t be so foolish as to make Wright a clear bottom tier though since, yeah, he obviously had more work put into him than any other character with his unique mechanics, extremely detailed animations, and Dante-sized moveset. I can’t imagine that Capcom would put that much work into a character only to nerf him into bottom tier. I reserve judgment until the patch hits, but let’s not try to downplay how horrible losing that assist would be.
Minus the “get rid of folder/photo” line, pretty much this. Too much time went into Wright for him to be straight garbage (he has his own game mechanic within Marvel). But yeah, fix the way bad evidence pops up and he’s pretty much set. Oh, he can be normal grabbed through Maya shield too (during an opponent’s chain combo hitting Maya, if opponent mashes forward + H instead of H, grab registers). Pretty stupid.
Folder is a spinning knockdown on hit, projectile stays out there forever and the explosion also hits… and photo is a beam. Just saying they have some really good use (knife does no damage phone takes forever start-up to get out for negatives).
^Phoenix teams can be built to still have a very good chance of winning without her. Try Magz/Doom/Phoenix. Magz/Doom is still crazy. Or Viscant’s bullshit team of Wesker/Haggar/Phoenix, which pretty much cleaned house at EVO this year. Positive you can build Wright teams in the same manner (in fact, any team that involves a mix-up character + a good pressure assist goes well with Phoenix).
Dante-sized moveset? You are joking, right? His moveset isn’t nearly as vast as Dante’s. It’s month 1 and the only real work put into the character so far has been “best way to rush to get Turnabout assist”. Too early to call, especially with what Trial mode offers offense/defense-wise (evidence zoning with paper and press the witness pressure with slip-up/paper to throw off the advancing guard). Oh, and “Hold It” being the only normal in the game that builds stun on block. Any work done to see what can be done team-wise with a “Hold It” stun (raw tag combos, etc)? Not gonna get much mileage out of the character if you’re certain he’s so bad so early in the game’s life cycle.
Guys, all this discussion about what buffs/nerfs TM should and shouldn’t get is cool and all, but it’s not going to affect anything Capcom does.
Furthermore, we’re basing this all off a **rumor. **We’ll see what happens when the patch comes out in 4 days.
If he does get nerfed and receives no buffs at all, rage away. I know I would. Especially with the thought that this may very well be the only patch UMVC3 gets as far as balance goes.
If the invincibility gets removed, the only acceptable tradeoffs that I’ll accept are:
-Turnabout Mode has no time limit.
-Significant decrease in chances of getting bad items/meat.
-Cannot be grabbed from Maya shield.
Sound ridiculous? It isn’t. Frank in level 4/5 becomes a complete monster and what do you have to do to get that? Do a combo. Not exactly mentally taxing. PW requires so much more effort for a mode that isn’t that much better and is on a time limit. Without dat assist, it really doesn’t make any sense to even have TM on a timer.
So, to change the topic from the assist meltdown shit can anybody list the uses of Maya M? Not sure what the point is when Maya H seems to be fast enough to hit in any required instance. Investigation Wright pressure tool, maybe (solo high/low mix-ups backed by a lock-down assist)? For example, Cold Star + Maya M + Slip-Up leading to the Slip-Up comboing into Cold Star and Wright being able to convert (possibly two Hold Its in the combo to assist with Trial Wright pressure, and zoning)?
By number of moves. Apparently Wright has about 40 something moves, a number similar to Dante. Someone posted about it before.
And yes, right now he is not the worst but he is kinda bad (imo he is upper low/lower mid sans TM). Moreso because for all the things he can do, most of the cast can do them better - nevermind his shit mobility. Sure, within the years to come hopefully we’ll develop a much more solid Wright game sans Turnabout, but it’s hard to see Wright outclassing a number of the cast since not only do they too have the potential for growth but it’s already hard enough just to make him work against them. Just because we’re assessing Wright in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean we’re giving up on him.
Well, here’s one guy saying you’re not alone. PW’s my serious main, sure and simple. Even through my friends main Wesker, C.Viper, and Nemesis (respectively), and those are all…interesting matchups for PW. Wesker’s actually the easiest for me to fight there; it’s C.Viper’s cancels and Nem’s reach/armor that screws me up most of the time. But with all that, I actually play investigation PW more offensively; most of my evidence gathering happens after combo knockdown, after setting up shield+assist of choice. It’s so fun jumping back with retreating f+Hs, only to switch it up with a forward airthrow.
Honestly in the end it’s all about fun. PW forces people to play an entirely different game, both his player and the opponent. And I for one enjoy that game.
Maya M for Investigation pressure is hilarious. Maya + pressure assist for some real bullshit (Maya is Wright’s own little Hidden Missile =P). A standing Hold It stun is a free raw-tag combo into a character that can do more raw damage than Wright (so, poke with two hold its, find a hit with the third, raw tag; Wright still in Trial for a good DHC off of the tagged character), grabs/slip-up into Judge DHC power-up hyper is a guaranteed 700k+ at least, with the amount varying depending on the character (Judge into Ryu power-up is like 700k raw, 900+ if you burn another meter). Could try it with other characters and see what you get.
I mean, no mention that PW’s Order in the Court hyper has the same property, and due to his frame 1 start-up invincibility is actually more practical? Come on, people. >_>
That makes it better for us who play him. Unfamiliar matchup can be a real doozy to people who have no idea how of what some characters can do. I blow up people all the time with order in the court super, since only PW players know of its invincibility.
So, finally got to sit in the lab for a day with Wright. Realizing that support Wright is ridiculous (and I don’t mean just Turnabout support). Safe methods of poking with Hold It in Investigation/Trial, with the opportunity to raw tag on a standing stun into a character that can better convert, two amazing DHC starters in Maya and Judge (learning that they actually work best with supers that recover fast and allow you to build super meter during the resulting combo), Maya super on block DHC for lock-down, Turnabout mode (clearly), two really good assists that support zoning/rush-down well (haven’t tried Missile yet, possibly a good projectile for helping characters get inside, using Strange/Wright/Ryu so don’t really need it), 1 million health for survival, safe DHC into Maya on block (potential to blow up assists with point character, then save point character from resulting punishment). Then on point, he has good options in Trial and with a good set of evidence (not just random pieces), he can be really good from a distance. Options in Trial to cycle through evidence without dying for it. Of course, Turn About is a threat too.
It feels like using him less as a straight-up fighter and more as a support unit, while taking opportunities to get a good pieces of evidence when safe is the way to go. Thinking about holding Turn About as a dire situation option, instead of just pulling it out asap. That way, you get access to monster Wright when your really need it.
For safe methods of poking with Hold It:
Investigation - Hold it xx Maya L, Hold it xx Stance Change
Trial - Hold it xx Paperwork L, Hold it xx Stance Change
For jumping Hold It, you can cancel on hit/block into S, so you remove the recovery of the Hold It and keep it safe.
Seriously. It’s pretty funny playing against people who don’t know that Wright actually has decent anti-airs. I’ve stopped a few Wolverine dive kicks before with just paper and followed it up into team super for Turnabout.
On the subject of Phoenix Wright moves does anyone use his Press the Witness in Trial mode? (Besides combos) If so for what situations?
Also switched from missile to paperwork (low) instead I think that assist is pretty good at covering advance guard and protecting your point character.
Hehe, really. Did anyone watch the SCR stream last night? Not only did we see 2 Phoenix Wrights on stream (!!!) but one of them was really good, and made proper defensive use of that super in the last match against Ammy. Great stuff.