1441

Right on the money. Good shit. Yeh I couldn’t believe it when Chen said that he’s the worst character in the game on WNF. Like seriously. Not only is that bogus because he’s capable (and also capable of being downright dominate) with smart playing, but it’s fucking day two man.

Lol now when I hit my Objection I just say “I just won” to whoever I’m playing. And that’s been true in every case today. It’s monstrous. But the thing is even when your in turnabout mode it’s not an instant “lol wut” win like Dark Phoenix. You have to use it correctly.

1442

And now for something completely different, why I will try really really hard to make PW viable, instead of complaining about his week 1 low tierness like I usually do.

Phoenix Wright may be the most original game accurate character. But it’s not in his gameplay, there’s not much pointing and clicking to be done in Marvel. No, it’s the emotions and feelings of the player and how they relate to both PW and MvC3.

You start in investigation, looking to gather good evidence like in PW. You have uncooperative witnesses, prosecutors looking to cut you off, and sometimes even the police are against you. In this case 3 super powered people. All the same. They will cut off all the space you can to search, while usually you’re only allies are Maya who’s good here and there but not as essential, and an occasional Miss…Gumshoe assist. The psychelocks help us uncover some truths but nothing we can expose to the world just yet (Nitsuma said btw at NYCC that a psyche lock move was considered but felt it slowed down the gameplay too much). Eventually once we make do with the evidence we have, we head to court. We feel decently prepared and ready to face whatever challenges lay ahead.

Now in court or trial mode, we have weapons! Our evidence! The odds are still against us, for the prosecutors and most witnesses will do all in their power, legal or not, to stop us. We must properly discover and solve each contradiction and lie with the correct piece of evidence though. Working through the opponent’s statements…or multiple unseeable mixups, we seek somehow to land that one OBJECTION! that we know can turn the whole case around and blow it over. We’re anticipating the correct moment to blow things open, though we shouldn’t be TOO eager or overconfident, lest we piss off the judge and he declares us Guilty…or the prosecutors in this case just kill us.

But now we’ve done it! We’ve hit the key objection and blown the case open. The tables have turned, the pressure’s all on them. The evidence becomes overwhelming. Phoenix starts getting confident and calling out all the bullshit. You know unless you make a mistake you’ve won. Just a matter of time. And I cannot understate how important the music change is to capturing this atmosphere in Marvel 3. The first few times I got turnabout IRL with the full version I got way too giddy for someone my age, just because I realized it was the same feeling as in the games when the music starts playing there.

I’m not sure how much of this was intentional design on Capcom’s part, but it all feels brilliant to translate the same feelings and emotions from a fighter and a visual novel…

1443

One of my favorite little things is when he’s in turnabout and starts firing his evidence, instead of just saying “I will submit the evidence!” he starts saying “Recognize this?”

It’s just fucking beautiful man. I’ve never had such a strong urge to make a character as viable as possible in my own way. And your post is the reason why, and why he’s just crazy enjoyable for me to play too. I wouldn’t have it any other way, no matter where he ends up on people’s list.

Oh and by the way, do you guys know Wright gets a special taunt when he’s in turnabout? It’s a great way to get that shaky guilty party even more nervous.

1444

I’m not convinced turnabout is next to Dark Phoenix. I’m not convinced he’s even top tier in turnabout, he just doesn’t have the mobility or attack angles or mixups that top tier characters tend to have in Marvel games. I also think his evidence projectiles are ass. They don’t have the durability, speed, and angles that great projectiles in this game have. He can’t use them in the air, and he’s not very mobile, so in courtroom he just plays this stupid grounded keepaway style that a dozen characters are better at anyway. His level 3 super is great but think about this… you’ve just spent a ton of time and meter and given up a ton of potential damage output in leveling up this character. Now for the price of what should be the opposing character’s life, you’re gonna go back to being the worst character in the game? Maybe you should have just spent all that time and meter and damage output, I dunno, killing the opposing team instead of getting to a point where you could kill the team?

That said, I think if we can optimize the expediting process and pair him with the right characters who can make the best use of his assists, we can keep him reasonably competitive and useful. But we’ll see, it’s just too hard to know this early on how he’ll ultimately end up.

1445

Even if hes does end up being bottem tier or whatever I still have a blast playing him.

Getting turnabout mode gives you such a huge sense of achievement and excitement. And getting it and winning with it is more worth than say winning 10 games straight. So Ill have fun with him either way. And they can always release patches and the inevitable SUPER ULTIMATE MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 I am sure can balance him out…

1446

I can’t really agree with the whole projectile thing. Even if you have to simply stand there its really not that bad considering how brain dead easy you can spam the projectiles. And whatever shoots straight (the photo I believe) has a ton of durability from what I have experienced. I have won simply just spamming the shit out of those projectiles because you can get so many so fast and people simply do not know how to deal with them. Yeah they are not as good as other characters projectiles but for as easy as they are to pull off and spam them Id say it evens it out. But this is all at a amateurish level…

And I feel if you use wright as an anchor with lvl 3 x factor hes really really scarry. That gives him plenty enough mobility and extreme damage. I have made really good comebacks from this. In that sense I can see it all being worth it because it immediately becomes completely unsafe to call in assists and if they do then its over. Even with shitty mobility you can zone well with the FoD and his projectiles which become stupid as hell at that point.

But what I think it all comes down to is not if its worth it just that its almost impossible to pull off and like you said requires a lot of resources and time that could be better spent. The pay off is good but the risk is simply way too high right now. You cant get to turnabout mode without at least missing half HP. Basically too much risk in the end.

EDIT:
Also It doesn’t help that a lot of the top level players don’t seem to care as much as David does. Or really show any interest in trying to play him at all.

So even if he doesnt work, thanks for trying to figure this out with us David.

1447

I don’t think that he’s the next DP, per se, but I think he’s the closest thing to her in this game (I don’t think DP is nearly as ridiculous this time around, but then again, I’ve barely seen her played so far) in that he has the potential to kill in seconds and can chip to death in pretty stupid ways. His mobility may not be great, but he can cover his approaches with evidence summoning for free easy mixups when you get to them.

His evidence projectiles are astoundingly good; you should really be using cell phone -> photograph -> knife -> vase -> watch -> autopsy report (useless). Basically, any of the first three are amazing zoning tools in TM. Cell phone is well beyond broken and can chip to death in seconds easily. They’re not air-OK, but if they were, I’m pretty positive that PW in general would be well beyond broken, even in court mode. The only character that I’ve seen outzone PW’s TM zoning is Hawkeye, who frankly, is probably the best zoner by far. Anyone else isn’t fast enough to do it with the risk of the level 3 looming over their head.

My basic gameplan with Wright has been: Cover Wright with assists and investigate (slowly, as I said, being too greedy means you lose) -> switch him to last -> abuse his assist -> save him for his level 3 X-Factor and kill anyone in a few hits. I’ll be honest, the level 3 is very very rarely a factor unless I TAC or DHC into it to troll or to just get the faster kill. However, he IS capable of fighting post-TM. My usual gameplan after he loses TM is to use Maya H (tremendously underestimated), gather two pieces of evidence really quickly, switch to CM, then zone. Usually the opponent is close enough to being dead for it to be enough to push him to the win anyway.

I feel like Wright is, as a whole is mid to high tier. He requires a lot of very careful playing and on-the-fly switching between rushdown and zoning to be effective. From what I’ve played of him, TM is ridiculous, just not braindead. No offense, but honestly, I found it to be a bit absurd when you and Chen were talking about how bad he is last night…Frankly, it’s a matter of the player being good enough to work with him. It could be argued that his effort isn’t worth it, but I disagree. It really doesn’t even take a tremendously high amount of effort to get him there…Just patient play with decent blocking, and once you get him there, you have an insane character that will at least take out two characters if you’re playing him right as all. But hey, if people complain that he sucks and the buff him, better for me, right? It’s the same reason why Viper didn’t get nerfed, she’s broken as all hell but very few people have taken advantage of that so no one cried for her to be nerfed.

Sorry if these arguments were incoherent. I’ve been in class or on the road all day and I’m ready to pass out. But I really do think it’s premature to be writing him off. Chen’s comment in particular about him being twice as bad as the next-lowest character really bothered me.

1448

UltraDavid about his level 3, do you see all the time it gives you after it kills? If you’re a little lucky, you can for sure grab all three pieces of evidence before the next character comes in, or at least two. I usually try my best to keep it for the last character, but if he does have to use it he isn’t just left out to dry. He gets plenty of time to set up.

My strategy with Wright so far is to get the kill or heavily damage the character he gets the Objection on (which is easy because of the crazy hit stun), switch him out for Frank, and use his assist to help level up Frank and let him and Ghost Rider plow through the rest of the opponents team. This also leaves Wright in the wings powered up and ready to come in to help, use X-factor if needed, DHC into his instant level 3, or anything else I need an ace attorney for.

Turnabout isn’t just a boost for Wright, it’s a boost for the entire team.

1449

Can you guys help me out here? Pick Wright and do evidenceevidenceevidence as quickly as you can, canceling the recovery on the first evidence into the next one so that you barely see more than a frame or two of him standing before he ducks down again to pick up more evidence. See what evidence you get. Or what I did, was go into training mode and pick opponent dummy Wright, record him doing evidencex3 asap, and then replay, see what evidence I get, then restart and replay, see what I get, etc.

The first evidence is random, sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes meat. As for the next two… I’m consistently getting only good evidence or meat.

Please verify.

Edit: just in case it matters, I’m doing L+S, M+S, H+S. Gonna test if that matters now.

1450

Noob question but… how do you record? ; _ ;

1451

Oh it’s not a noob question, they made it as nonobvious as possible lol. Go to controller settings and set one of your buttons to P2 Recording and another one to P2 Replay. Hope you don’t have a 6 button stick! If you do, you can plug in another controller and set that one up to have record and replay.

Anyway recording the dummy is not helpful here. Turns out that the dummy replays the exact sequence of evidence you get when you record the first time and just plays it every time you have replay. Weird lol.

1452

Ah okay then I am not worried about it. Well heres the results of what I got so far.

GMM
GBG
BGG
BGG
BBG
MGB
GGG
MGG
GGG
BGG
GGB
GGB
GMG
GBG
GGB
GBB
BMM
GGG
GMM
BGM
BBG
GGG

G is good evidence. B is Bad evidence and M is Meat…

1453

Are you sure you’re doing the evidence sequence as fast as you can?

1454

I just shut off the game, but I know that the guide says that the game will not let you have three pieces of bad evidence, which means the third piece will always be meat or good evidence. I know I’ve had two pieces of bad evidence at once, but it would be interesting to see if getting evidence quicker changes the odds.

OH AND THIS SEEMS IMPORTANT. Another little thing from the guide that seems very helpful but subtle is that the judge super destroys bad evidence. Keep in mind that this switches you back to investigation mode automatically too. I’ve used this to my advantage a couple of times already. If you have some bad evidence but happened to grab a combo, you can land, switch stances, and immediately do the judge super to get rid of it and do more damage. Although the spacing advantage is kinda questionable, kinda depends on which way you roll. Dunno if this is known yet but it needs to be shared if not.

1455

Yea. He basically doesn’t stop looking right?

1456

Wait I tried to do it MUCH faster and now I almost get all good every time…

EDIT: Well its super late on the east coast so off to bed. Hopefully you figure out what you wanted.
EDIT2: I am not certain its speed based but might need one other to be certain. I could be making an error for I am retarded at times…

1457

Huh, if you’re getting the good evidence consistently then maybe evidence gathering is time-based like Hsien-Ko’s Anki Hou?

1458

Yeah, a bunch of us were investigating in a chat room and some people think that evidence is based on an invisible internal clock like with Hsienko. I still get either good evidence or meat consistently when I do evidencex3 as fast as possible. Those two things don’t necessarily contradict each other, I dunno. Also maybe I’ve just been getting super lucky in my testing, very possible heh.

1459

Using Wright/Dante-jam/Doom-missiles for combo into otg missiles into team super with million dollars to go from investigation mode to either instant turnabout mode or up to 5 free evidences: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoclmhWPIHM

1460

Yo. . . . sick