Jill is a tricky and fast character that must rely on fast (projectile/ lockdown) assists to assault the enemy. While I recongize beams are great to punish assists and “clear” the area for Jill, that’s not the main point we should go for while playing her. Her fundamentals are based on mixup situations, that’s when **she really shines **and that’s when she needs fast assists to quickly confuse the enemy’s inputs. In general, beams/ bolts are slow assists, easy to counter because they stay on the screen for too long time. These points prejudice Jill’s optimal gameplay once they force her to play more warily. Jill must be played in a frenetic-advanced-fast way; that’s her shape, her set.
Plus, although we all know Machine Gun Spray combines a lot with many others hyper combos for a pretty good THC, Jill commonly can’t do much damage after it. **Is THC so important for her as we are conditioned to think? Is it worth 2 bars if we sometimes can’t kill the opponent’s assist or his point either? **Once we go for a THC, the enemy is aware of this trick and rarely will fall on it again.
Paulow, I was messing around with Jill / RR / Hawkeye in training mode. I think I might like it better than Unibeam. I still have to find other mixups for it because triple arrows come out and travel too fast. I will try to play with this team some time soon. I think Spitfire would be good for this team though, but I will have to test log too.
You’ve got the wrong idea here paulo. Triple Arrow and Weasel Shot are two different assist. Weasel shot is more of a lock down assist like cold star and sentinel force where Triple arrow is your quick horizontal pressure. You couldn’t use triple arrow like weasel shot and vice-versa. I’m starting to think that if you’re trying to maximize jill’s ground game, you’re going to NEED to a lock down assist so the opponent has no other choice but to take her mix ups. Triple arrow and Weasel shot can work together.
Paulo, I completely agree that Jill needs a lockdown assist…and I also mentioned earlier that while Unibeam is her best “get in” assist, its also one of her absolute best assists for resets as well. For example:
do any combo ending with cartwheel, feral dash back (while they are bouncing), call Unibeam assist > plink dash forward.
This covers every single tech option and is SAFE. There are very (very) few assists that can do this, that also keep the opponent grounded.
I also feel like the whole THC thing may be a LITTLE overrated…with Iron Man. It is in absolutely no way overrated when done with Dante or Amaterasu though. It almost guarantees that you will get a hit on them…and if Jill gets a hit in general, shes going to need a reset no matter what (Assuming they are full health or anywhere close to full health). If Jill is forced to reset anyways, why not make getting the initial hit easier on yourself? Especially vs hard to catch enemies like magneto or Zero. I will spend the bar to THC those characters EVERY SINGLE TIME because killing them as soon as possible is normally my main goal. Secondary and tertiary characters typically dont give Jill that big of a problem unless its something specific like Hawkeye backed by missiles (which even then is manageable if you play it right). Vergil and Ammy do give Jill problems, but if theyre down to one character and you still have Jill backed by two assists, you SHOULD be able to kill them on incoming…or at least make them touch the ground then keep pressure / mixups applied with proper use of assists. If Vergil gets out though, it can be bad times. I feel like he and Zero are tied for Jills worst matchup.
Edit:
I also personally feel that Iron Man is a far superior non point character as well. A better assist in most aspects (aside from speed), far more damaging DHC’s, a THC which is semi abuseable, provides a TAC infinite, and provides the same matchup support as Hawkeye.
That being said, even though they both have good matchup vs x character (say…Doom), I feel that Hawkeye has more “easy” wins vs these characters. Also, Hawkeye provides a “safe” DHC which is kinda cool, but Jill doesnt really need a safe DHC since her super is safe on block at any distance anyways.
please take note that im not trying to say that Iron Man as a whole is better than Hawkeye…Hawkeye far outshines Iron Man on point (in most aspects). I just think Iron Man is an overall better second character.
Personally I think MGS gimmicks can be very important to Jill’s gameplay. While a good player may not fall for it too many times it still forces them to consider THC or MGS+assist tactics and will force them to be careful with assist calls. The fact that it forces your opponent to change up their neutral game is it’s most powerful aspect.
I agree with this sentiment. I have tried to use both iron man and hawkeye in my jill teams for quite some time. Iron man definitely contributes more to the team synergy, but hawkeye is still a good choice and is a much more reliable point character. The only part I disagree with is that Jill doesn’t need a safe dhc out, while I never spend too many resources to save jill having a safe dhc option was something I really valued.
It didn’t start getting practical until he brought out missiles, but even then he had Chris as a assist with mines… Either way, the combos were great and I like them.
You serious? If you see you’re opponent pressing Cr.L, you go either Up, or Up and Over them. If you are close enough, Somersault. Bolts sounds godly with Jill, if I liked Dr.Strange enough, I would definitely used the assist.
The thing is Jill up feral dash and overheads dont have much range to them soo even if you try to overhead or feral dash you can still get caught. I agree Jill Bolts aint that good. Also I wanna say that Plasma Beam is better for Jill then Unibeam is for a few reason.
Plasma Beam is faster
2)It comes out back more then unibeam
3)It can combo extend like unibeam
4)All the reset that unibeam can do Plasma beam can do and there are also some that plasma beam can do that unibeam cant
Also dont forget that Drones give Jill a Reset that is untechable and pretty much a guaranteed mix-up or Mix-ups
The only thing about Drones is that you pretty much lose a neutral assist. It depends on how you play it, you might not even get a chance for him to come out.
I’m not sure. I think it could be a good idea though since triple arrow and bolts serve very difference purposes for jill. When I ran Jill with bolts I loved the ability of bolts to control the opponents movement and coutner assist calls. Within this respect I thought it was one of the better assists for her to actually get near an opponent but it has almost no functionality in block strings. As others have stated you can space ambiguous feral dash overheads characters stuck under the bolts assist, but this isn’t always safe
On the bright side you can setup flame loops thanks to the raven spike dhc and strange being second which with practice could fix Jill’s damage problems. You also have two good anchors on your team and triple arrow is really a great assist for jill. The only thing that seems lacking is a damaging DHC or a safe DHC unless you want to burn 3 meters. I’ll try to mess around with this team, it sounds fun.
I initially posted in the general team building thread about a team based around Jill on point, asking if Jill with Morrigan’s soul fist and Dorm’s purification sounded like a good idea. After reading through some of this I think now I might just go try her with Iron Man and Ammy instead. How far I’ll get given my extremely limited experience and understanding of Marvel remains to be seen, but the accumulated knowledge of all you clever people splattered across these boards will surely help a lot.
I always say, if you have a team composition you would like to have, try it. You might find dirty stuff that we would have never thought of in our dreams. Granted, a lot of the stuff on this forum is tried and true from experience, having a fresh set of eyes on a new team composition is really helpful. When Maziodyne came up with Jill / Strange, I was like, FEH that would never work. But you get full FoF loops off of it.
