"Now, face the mighty Bison!" - Video Critique Thread

Just cannot beat Vegas man. Hate the matchup. Hate it.

Any advice would be great. I’ll post winners, losers and grand finals. I totally cracked in grand finals as I took such a beating in winners finals.

Winners:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWqbAnbdgGo&list=UUzrOMSPssP1xt_K-VSB-U3g

Losers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67_-1YYAXm4

Grand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjos8reMNI&list=UUzrOMSPssP1xt_K-VSB-U3g

Was playing on a HDTV so droped links all over the place but any advice on the Vega matches in particular would be great.

Thanks guys.

watch out for every Vega Cr.MP, if the Cr.MP hit, he can confirms it to EX FBA. If Cr.MP can’t hit, prepare to block the cross-up of his EX Sky High Claw
Besides, do not try to use MK or HK scissor kick with him (u can do that only in combo). I know it’s laggy or delay, but if you do, u should at least have 2 EX Bar to FADC just in case, because his Claw can easily hit you after that for a big damage.
And one more thing, Vega in Ultra version has better anti-air than ever, Bison’s very floaty jump in or Devil Reverse are very vulnerable so do not use them so much. Vega is very weak at close range so try to walk, or focus dash forward him, just don’t jump into him at far range (even head stomp). When u are close to him, just use Lp, LK and frame trap, he cannot do anything agains it.

I can play well both characters so I suggest u my opinion

Thanks for the feedback mate. I thought Vega was pretty free to jumpins so I jumped at him quite a lot rather than risk getting hit by the Cr Mp as that leads to a shit ton of damage.

Maybe I should just start concentrating on getting in via a dash after a whiffed normal? Seems like a better strategy now I think about it.

Not sure what advise I can add.

Vega wins on the ground and wins the air. He has superior backwards walk speed, equal forwards walk speed and superior poke range even without his claw. Bison does have a better forward dash.
In the air Vega just has better normal’s and an air throw with good range.

Bison wins if he can put Vega on his back.

I’ll list some stuff, most of which you probably already know.

Primary Pokes
C.LP 4 frame start up with superior range to Bison’s C.LK. +1 on block, +4 on hit.

C.MP 4 frame start up with superior range to Bison’s S.MK and S.HK, -4 on block, +1 on hit. Block at close range and you can get the next poke in.

C.MK 6 frames start up with superior range to Bison’s S.MK and S.HK, +2 on block, +5 on hit. At least Scissor Kick will go over this one.

All of the above will cancel combo into EX.FBA.

S.MK 8 frame start with superior range to Bison’s S.MK and S.HK. Not as much a treat as its quite slow.

S.HK 4 frame start up. While its faster to start up than Bison’s S.MK and S.HK it doesn’t reach max range until the second hit which starts at frame 6. Its full range is fractionally more than Bison’s S.HK.
Its -7 on stand block (both hits).
If you crouch block the second hit whiffs and its -9 on block.

C.HK is between -12 and 0. Same as Bison, just as risky so will only be used sparingly. Unlike Bison he can not FADC this to make it safe.

Command Normals
DF+MK (overhead) -4 on block, 0 on hit, doesn’t lead to anything.
DF+HK (cosmic heal) between -3 and +1 on block. Block this and 9/10 you will at least force him to block C.LK xx LK.SK. Juggles on hit.

Anti Air’s
C.HP and S.HK hit out in front of Vega but if Bison comes down at steep angle from a close jump in he can get over these moves without much difficulty. They do stop empty jump in’s that cause other characters more vertical anti air to whiff.

Scarlet Terror. Requires down back charge so if Vega is moving around he doesn’t have access to this. Also has no hit invincibility and it doesn’t pack the greatest hitbox so Vega must time this early. Don’t jump at crouching Vega who you know has charge.

NJ.MK and NJ.HK Vega’s best way of dealing with closer jump ins.

Air to Air
In my personal experience Vega wins. Not really a speed advantage, more his jump angle and hitboxes on his jumps are better. His air throw has excellent range. Obviously NJ are a good counter to angle jumps for both characters.

Throws
Extra care most be taken against Vega as he can Kara cancel into his throw from S.HK which gives his throw excellent range, this combined with his excellent walk speed makes his throw game deadly. Thankfully his throws do less than average damage.

Specials
Flying Barcelona Attack.
Normal versions not a problem. It can be dealt with by JB.HK/HP either on its way to the wall or after it reaches the wall.
Some Vega players have difficult landing the grab part of this move due to its short range. Focus Dashing should allow you to punish players with this issue regardless of which side they land on.
If the Vega players are good at landing the grab, you can always just teleport out.
On Block Vega is -13.

If Vega uses it to build meter or just aborts the attack on the far side of the screen you can punish with Pyscho Punisher if you have got it stocked.

His EX.FBA is a threat all on its own. Vega can fire this at random and mix it up with EX.SHC cross ups. But primarily he will be looking to land this off C.MP.
If you block it on his way up often the Vega players will just attempt to land far away from you. You can dash after him to try to punish but beware he can still try to hit you.
This move can also punish EX.PC on block.

Sky High Claw
Normals will never be used, -20 on block and too telegraphed to be viable. The EX.Version can be used as it crosses over and then comes back and hits you on the way back. A few things to note, this won’t hit you if your crouching in one of the corners of the screen. On block the closer you are to the edge of the screen the less push block occurs on block. Blocking mid screen the only punish you will get is by walking forward just a fraction and using S.HK. Closer to the the edge you may be able to get C.MP, S.MK link as a punish. EX.SHC is -18 on block.

Scarlet Terror
Anti air and anti throw move, has no hit invincibility. 7 frame start up on light an medium version while hard and EX have 4 frame start up. Light and medium are -12 on block while hard and EX are -15.
Requires down back charge. Don’t jump at Vega sitting on down back charge.

Rolling Crystal Flash
Vega can combo into the light version of light/medium strength moves. Dangerous when Vega has 3 bars of meter for an EX.RFA.
He needs hard strength moves to combo into the hard and EX version. He can combo out of EX.RCF which is +4 on hit into C.MP. The rest are +2 on hit.
Vega is -2 on block after all of these but is out of C.LK range. The next poke is a 50/50 afterwards. Vega should not be throwing this out at random as its far too slow.
Some Vega’s like to use this on waking opponents for chip damage. EX.SK and EX.PC will trade win against this (LK.Super and U1 will win clean). If you want to avoid damage at all, teleport to the other side of him.

Backflip
Please punish this move. Its derp slow. Slide, fash foward throw/combo. Vega should never get away with using this.

Super
He can combo into this. In the unlikely event Vega throws this out randomly, take no risks and just teleport. Can punish EX.PC on block.

Ultra 1
Probably not going to be used by Vega.

Ultra 2
Vega’s only move with invincible frames on start up, can stuff meaties but at the same time can be safe jumped at 7 frames. Can punish EX.PC on block. Can also punish EX.Devils Reverse meter build from full screen although its easier to do from closer than that. -36 on block.

General Match Up

Vega will win if the match is purely played footsies. But some of the match will have to be played that way. Be patient and be prepared to block a lot.
You can chance random jumps in perhaps getting over Vega’s pokes and force him to block to apply pressure but it is risky.
You will be looking for that random knock down off Scissor Kick’s but even getting in range to LK.Scissor is tricky. If you take damage (which you probably will) your going to need to try to make it up when he’s knocked down. Vega is free to wake up pressure until he gets U2, likewise with cross up Pyscho Crusher mix ups (but if he blocks right your just zoned yourself out) and regular cross ups. Frame traps and tick throws are the name of the game here.

If he gets pushed to the corner he has better options than most with dealing with this due to his fast pokes that can push you back out. Expect C.LP to push you back, but once your out of his C.LP range he will switch to C.MP which is -4 on block (offering you a momentum shift) or he will stop and wait (also offering a potential way back in). He may try to use C.MP xx EX.FBA has a way out as well, chase down his escape if you block it. His S.HK is unsafe on block if he opts for that. You can also try try the nuclear option of throwing out EX.SK if you to fight through his pokes.

When he gets Ultra 2 be prepared to bait it out on his wake up.

A note on LK.SK. If you do this at point blank range and Vega blocks it your are in range to do C.LK which is a 50/50 against Vega C.LP/MP/S.HK. Preforming LK.SK from else where but point blank range will leave you to far away to follow up with C.LK. You do get a little more leeway if Vega crouch blocks as he has a fatter hurtbox crouching and thus you can hit him from further away.

If you get the life lead run away. Footsies are always easier when moving backwards imo. Vega will loose access to C.MP xx EX.FBA if he’s chasing you as well as Scarlet Terror anti air and he will be more prone to running into Scissor Kicks, offering you the chance to attack him on his back again. Anti airing Vega isn’t too much of a deal for Bison either. Bison also runs less risk of running into random EX.FBA’s

His EX.FBA/ EX.SHC cross up is a bit gimmicky but you just need to practice blocking this and punishing correctly. Your not always going guess right. Expect EX.SHC when your running away and Vega is trying to figure out a way in or the next hit will kill you.

Bison’s wake up is much better than Vega’s and if Vega hasn’t charge its difficult for him to cover all of Bison’s options. EX.PC is safe on block until Vega gets one bar or Ultra. Expect Vega’s to make good use of his kara throw when he’s close. You can also expect frame traps, particularly J.HP into CL.HP or CL.MK. Another common Vega ploy is instant overhead with J.HP after a blocked jump in or on your wake up particularly if the blow will kill you. Block High and punish if you make the read. Expect Cosmic Heal cross overs to stop your back charge.

General Tidbits
Vega has average health and low stun (900). Keeping corner pressure on him can quickly lead to stun.
Loosing his mask means he takes more damage but also gives more damage.
Loosing his claw means all punch attacks have less damage and range. Kick moves are unaffected.
He is -4 after level 1 focus attack forward dash.
His hurtbox is fine for the most part. All BnB’s work as expected.

At high level this match up is probably somewhat in Vega’s favor but I always respect Vega players as there BnB’s are difficult 1 frame links, there specials are really unsafe and they have ass wake up.

On the other hand, in Ultra version, LK Scissor Kick —> cr.LK cannot beat Vega Cr.LP or Cr.MP (4 frames start up and long reach) anymore (LK SK -1)

@Azza: deep analysis and excellent knowledge, man

Awesome stuff Azza, thanks a lot bro. Getting in the lab ASAP!

Really great to have your input chaps, can’t thank you enough.

Shout outs to gagapa too who pm’d me some match analysis.

You da best. All of ya :slight_smile:

A point blank range his LK.SK on block leaves him in C.LK range. But it is a 50/50 now.

PM me the Gagapa info please.

Here’s what gagapa said gents:

*First play U2, you can punish all izuna drop with it
in this MU, you have to play very lame.
If you compare your tools and his tools, you just have slide as wiff punish tool, so you cant attack.
When the match started, all vega tryed to cheap you with a crystal roll lp, you just have to know teh range, and focus the last hit in reaction (its easy when you think about it), FA level 1 and backdash.
You have to play very turtle because he can punish all of you move (jump with air grab, knee press light it s in his mp range…)
when your knee press hits, you can jump or dash x2 with meaty. You have to push him on the corner because it’s the only way to attack him, all the rest of the time just have to turtle and punish his move (not his normal move because you cant in react) like cosmic heel, jump, overhead…
grand final:
0:45: mk punish hit but the best its focus it when you are in his range
0:46; no knee press without cancel a normal move in this mu
0:51: no head stomp, you have to push him in the corner so jump (without u2) or dash x2 with knee press light to push
0:54: be ready, its THE move that you have to punish with whant you want: normal + knee press, hk…
1:13: good reaction
1:25: see your life, si his life, why use knee press? you just have to turtle, play lame!
1:28: another risky move, dont jump, franch vega air grab me when i tried to jump ^^
1:34: after knee press you cant do nothing, only ex pyscho whe you are late with life bar
1:43: you can ex psycho to punish his jump
1:48: the best way to use slide is just after vega use one of his move, so just walk in his range, back a litle, and slide, you can also you the fadc option selection to safe this move
1:53: always block in the opposite direction of the wall ^^
2:01: why head press?

i hope my some notes will help you*

Srsly, the bison board rox my sox. Cheers for all the help to everyone.

Gonna body that mother fucker next year!

While I’d recommend you take Gagapa’s advice over mine, I’m not sure why he says you can punish all Izuna drops with it because alot of the time Vega will cross over you breaking back charge. Maybe you could ask him to clarify.
Rest of his comments make sense. Some of your Scissor Kicks were poorly spaced. Dash up pressure it better than going for Headpress chip on a wake up Vega.

Its funny there is a few videos up of Gagapa vs Vega’s online from AE 2012 and he doesn’t always follow his own advice.

i tried to apply all the time my strategy, but, i failed sometimes:
this is the best vega in europe who very knows the matchup because we played very often together
he found some new tricks to punish and counter my lame strategy

Great stuff.

Maybe you can try cr.mp-heavy sk to whiff punish the cr.mp.Pretty hard but it is possible.I kind of feel that doing oki setup in this meta is kind of bad because it just take a delayed wakeup to screw up your okizeme setup.After slam,slide is more viable imo.You can try after sk knockdown and do a light meaty psycho crusher once in a while if vega do not have u2 up,it is pretty good cos you still retain your charge.

this game was in last april 2014, so not in USF4 but in AE2012, just to show my matchup strategy et some of the claw solution

Lianghubbb vs Me :smiley:

Includes fancy finish! :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_sZk1Fbiw&feature=youtu.be

Against Rufus, No health comeback! :smiley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNEw4Mzyb4c&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYW_jDeH9nw&feature=youtu.be

Nice matches. Also, where you get that mod from? Looks sick, a lot like CvS2.

Here you go:
http://www43.zippyshare.com/v/77810776/file.html

And thx!

Gapapa vs Cuongster FT10

Jesus Christ that cr fierce option select into rfa at 27.35 was fucking broken.

Awesome shit Gagapa.

Im trying to reach the next level. Here’s are some of my matches, please give me your advice. It would greatly be appreciate!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a2XoBONBY0&index=2&list=UUZTu5L2Y9r6kKqiLceY-myg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAiWyZzBCOw&index=3&list=UUZTu5L2Y9r6kKqiLceY-myg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wg9NfZ5vb4&index=7&list=UUZTu5L2Y9r6kKqiLceY-myg

A few thoughts:

You got away with a lot of devil reverse follow up attacks but they are always punishable. Adon and Poison could have DP’d you and Rog can focus and punish. Might want to watch that a bit in future.

I watched the Rog match first and it didn’t appear that you were punishing as hard as you could have done. Every throw punish can be a Cr Jab, Cr Jab, St Short, Cr Forward, RH Scissors instead. Nets you about 90 odd more damage that way. That said, I watched the other matches afterwards and it looked like you were punishing harder in them so I don’t know if it was something you had worked on in the meantime.