"Now, face the mighty Bison!" - Video Critique Thread

[Milligano]

Vs bison:
-always build metter at start 1st round: bison can’t punish it and when you have 1 metter you can punish devil reverse full screen!
-After knee press L, jump immediatly (safe jump against bison) and use one of 3 OS:
–HK: eat backdash
–cr HK: eat teleport
–Back teleport: when you see metter, no cheap!
-Against close ex psycho, punish it with autocorrect U2
-Against his jump: FA or cr.hp or ex psycho

This is all good and I agree with it all. However if your opponent has meter and you think they are going to EX PC I advise you OS stand throw off a j.HP immediately after a light scissor kick on hit.

If he EX PC’s you will throw him and your opponent will think again about using that as an option. This is when you start to OS st.rh and slide for teleports and backdashes.

It’s a pretty good tool in the mirror match.

Always use U2 in this match. If your opponent uses DR and activates the follow-up, you can catch him with U2 on his way down as a great punish

[m16ghost]

Pretty sure Bison can’t punish blocked EX-PC with autocorrect U2, unless the opponent doesn’t block correctly.

Also, the other Bison can delay his tech to beat lk scissors -> j.hp OS throw, since the throw will come out too early.

[ShadolooDoll]

Always use U2 in this match. If your opponent uses DR and activates the follow-up, you can catch him with U2 on his way down as a great punish

Yup, this is my reasoning for using u2

[stabicron]

Always use U2 in this match. If your opponent uses DR and activates the follow-up, you can catch him with U2 on his way down as a great punish

Bison’s floaty ass jump works against him as well or used to anyways, in the golden days of qcf U2. still happens from time to time that I can nail someone jumping with it. Can easily catch stomps as well.

[Milligano]

Pretty sure Bison can’t punish blocked EX-PC with autocorrect U2, unless the opponent doesn’t block correctly.

Also, the other Bison can delay his tech to beat lk scissors -> j.hp OS throw, since the throw will come out too early.

Yeah, this is true. However it’s normally done on reversal unless they con onto your set-up

[Gangryong]

Vs bison:
-always build metter at start 1st round: bison can’t punish it and when you have 1 metter you can punish devil reverse full screen!
-After knee press L, jump immediatly (safe jump against bison) and use one of 3 OS:
–HK: eat backdash
–cr HK: eat teleport
–Back teleport: when you see metter, no cheap!
-Against close ex psycho, punish it with autocorrect U2
-Against his jump: FA or cr.hp or ex psycho

-i think if you jump after lk knee press, os cr.hk beats backdash and back teleport.
-also option select throw is a good option against ex psycho even though it loses to delayed quick stand.

• you can’t punish ex psycho crusher with ultra2 but it creates a situation where your opponent can’t neutral jump to avoid the mixup(he can still teleport(, ex headstomp?),block)
  -teleport is a good reversal vs crossup(i don’t recomend to do ex psycho, it loses to option select hk.)
  -(can you punish headstomp on block with ultra2?)
• mashing cr.short/croutchtech is really good

[gagapa]

“- you can’t punish ex psycho crusher with ultra2 but it creates a situation where your opponent can’t neutral jump to avoid the mixup(he can still teleport(, ex headstomp?),block)”

if you play with human, nobodys can block it, KIM1234 use it a lot of time so i think it’s a very good idea!

OS throw it’s very difficult to use, if you can do it but i prefer back tp ^^

yesterday i had a battle with best european makoto. i don’t know the Versus so i’m not very good here ^^ We lost 5-3

[media=youtube]5LaVJLU0MMc[/media]

[media=youtube]C6Pysv0eCM0[/media]

[mikehascookies]

U2 mixup is bs. You can always mash teleport to get out, and the flash gives you a million years to identify it and react appropriately. No intelligent person should ever get hit by it.

[gagapa]

sorry if top japonese bison’s player not inteligent…

very intelligent post, thanks!!

[mikehascookies]

Again, it’s only a 50/50 if you try to block it. If you play a character with a teleport, then you never have to worry about blocking it. If someone gets hit by it in a mirror, it’s because they didn’t know they could have escaped it for free. If you want to beat people who don’t know matchups, be my guest. But you’d never hit any bison with it that really knows that matchup.

[gagapa]

Do you know risk reward?
risk: st mk 70 damage
reward: win game

I think it’s a good trick
And mashes teleport is the best way to don’t success teleport: mashes is never good idea in SF4!

[mikehascookies]

I know what risk reward is. I also know about opportunity cost. Blowing an ultra for a trick that probably won’t work not only might get you punished, you’ve also given up your only potential comeback option. You now no longer have that ultra for 2x j mp, focus crumple, stun, or as a stronger deterrent for devils reverse. Again, if there were a chance that it could work, it would make sense. But against someone who knows what they’re doing there is 0 chance. Ambiguous crossup ultra is honestly not even the best gimmick I’ve seen with it, so if you’re going to go for it at least find a setup for it where they don’t have a free out.

And mashing is a euphemism, but if you prefer you can ‘carefully time a teleport’ to escape. Although you don’t really need to time it that well since the window to escape is enormous.

[stabicron]

There is a good reason why the old “When in doubt, mash it out” is used a lot in SF4, cause it works.

TBH I have never bothered learning the 50/50 U2 setup, I just don’t see the point because I know what will happen if it gets blocked especially if its not a charge character. Too much of a gamble imo.

[kisaku1218]

50/50 only really work under certain condition, and is pure gimmick, I test with west a lot of times and yes, it can be done but not in bison favorite in MID/LATE
game if other player is well prepare and save meter…

mind game: YOU HAVE TO TRAIN THEM TO BLOCK, then that is true 50/50, play any character, I rather use it to punish teleport or punish mistake.
if they always mash while they have meter, this is 100% not working, I was getting NAIL by GEN ex kick like 1000 time, no matter how the setup, if he
got meter and you get any knock down, don’t even think about it…

GIMMICK only work with same lv/low lv player, it will not, repeat, it will NOT WORK AGAINST someone, way better than you, period.
you can try 50/50 in gods garden, and see if they get meter and mash that sht out and laugh them while you lose…

1)NO METER, when they have 0 meter, the chance to get hit by Ultra 2 is high,so they chose to block rather than mash.
2)NOT IN CORNER, funny, in corner (especially LEFT CORNER) it not work right, especially if you toss them too close you will always hit front not cross up
3)NO ULTRA, mash works, MASH ULTRA WORK EVEN BETTER. OUCH

under those condition, when they have no meter, not in corner, and you get them quick knock down, do ahead.
if they back dash and you get right choice you win.
since no meter the invincibility is not that high, so for example I would really want to try that on chun, but I doubt she ever runs out the meter.

and timing too, against some character I think the timing very, sometime forward throw cr.mp into ultra 2 works, but it will get jump out by some character
if they have good back dash.

BTW I don’t think this work on zangief at all…that insane wake up larient, unless you hit way further than his active larient, if you ultra into his larient you never win, even on wake up…his larient gonna blow you away.

I only recommend this setup if you use pink bison and working towards ultimate troll.

[kisaku1218]

BTW I LOVE HAPPY MEDICINE ! good anti air and no go crazy auto pilot (which I did too much)

[Kriger_Stern]

If U2 is used correctly, you can
1 - make Reversals whiff (DPs, Ultras)
2 - mess inputs.

I purposely made my Dhalsim friend use a EX Yoga something while trying to wakeup teleport my Crossup U2.
Made a sagat fly trying to EX TU my U2 too.
It is a possible tactic (except charge characters of course)

[mikehascookies]

Teleports are multi directional, and dp motions have higher input priority in the sf4 engine than almost anything. The correct way to do the input is the ‘cross cut’ method, where you alternate between down+forward and down+back. If you do it right, you will always get a teleport, regardless of what the other person does to screw with your inputs.

[gagapa]

you just forget timing of ex psycho recover… sorry but teleport works only if you are lucky, most player try just to block it and fail!
but why talk about that, you are very strong and tp 100% but other player can’t do that so… it’s a good trick

kisaku:
for all reversal, solution is easy: try to touch him with mk distance, if you U2 close them, ex, ultra… beat you but if you arrived at mid range, you win against all reversal! but it’s easyest to see if it’s front or behind him but for good player who reversal automaticaly, you win with range

[delusional11]

you just forget timing of ex psycho recover… sorry but teleport works only if you are lucky, most player try just to block it and fail!
but why talk about that, you are very strong and tp 100% but other player can’t do that so… it’s a good trick

First of all, can’t some of you guys start typing some coherent sentences? It’s such a pain trying to make out what you guys are saying sometimes. Second of all, most commentators I’ve listened to on streams and stream archives ALL around the world tend to agree that the U2 shenanigan/gimmick (whatever you want to call it) is severely overrated, can be easily avoided and is not a viable tactic against an educated player.

[Milligano]

First of all, can’t some of you guys start typing some coherent sentences? It’s such a pain trying to make out what you guys are saying sometimes. Second of all, most commentators I’ve listed to on streams and stream archives ALL around the world tend to agree that the U2 shenanigan/gimmick (whatever you want to call it) is severely overrated, can be easily avoided and is not a viable tactic against an educated player.

Why would you say a douchebag comment like this? They’re obviously LEARNING ENGLISH as another language. Be a little considerate next time.

U2 is a gimmick for sure and it is pretty rubbish to be honest so I’d agree there.