Not trolling, legit question to the people who play this game

Mr.Unbrockable · July 9, 2013, 11:08am

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

Smoothjazz101:

I’m all for competition but who the fuck wants to spend years of their lives studying a videogame just to be barely competent at it

AmishMan53:

Smoothjazz101:

I’m all for competition but who the fuck wants to spend years of their lives studying a videogame just to be barely competent at it

snip

To be fair it doesn’t take super long to pick up and play any new game now more than ever games are easy to get into. It may take a week or two max to at least know enough to enjoy a game semi competitively.

I will say this, if you never got into tekken, ttt2 will take forever to get good at.

Another main reason i like marvel is that you can get real creative with it. Fruitsy at evo 2012 showed how to win with a ghandi approach lol. This evo will be injustices first, and i don’t expect to see anything new outta the game that i haven’t seen yet. Marvel, it’s a coinflip, somebody could have found something unique to save for evo or not, but it’s exciting to watch in that aspect, and new tech can be carried over into your own gameplay, or change what you have to deal with.

So far marvel has been an ever evolving game, where ssf4 is always the same at its core. I guess the best way to say this is, how many times can you watch the same movie over and over?

Not even. A week or 2 max. The damage is so high in tt2 that youre never dead until you’re dead. Which can be a blessing or a curse depending on how you look at it.

One of the characters i was using in ttt2 is lee, who has a movelist of 80-something. of course 1 and 1,1 are listed as two different moves, but you have to learn not only the moves your opponent has, but what is or isn’t punishable, what has counter hit properties (the 1,1 strings second hit can have a crumple effect on counter hit, and be unsafe on block), crumple combos, solo combos, tag-in combos, cross assault combos, wall carry combos, wall-hit combos, how to break throws (reaction to that shit is hard), throws that look like other throws… i can keep this going if you want.

You can get a few wins with some horrible choice hopkicks that get lucky (combo system isn’t hard), but to play the game at a somewhat competitive level, you won’t get their in a week or two. This is of course my experience and it’s the first tekken game that i even bothered to hit the move list in.

You don’t have to learn every move. Most characters have alot of moves in thier command list that are useful. You generally only use 15 or 20 moves on the list since those tend to be the most useful. You might be surprise at how many moves plain suck or are just used for situational gimmicks and Tekkenzaibatsu is a great place to learn that. With Lee once you learn his wall carry combos he becomes a beast. He isn’t super hard to learn tbh. The Mishimas are however. Next is spacing and movement which you can learn in matches. Hell when I first started I would just outpoke and whiff punish people all the time since I didn’t know a combo and I got wins.

pedoviejo · July 9, 2013, 11:24am

Marvel vs Capcom 3 is like a fucking donkey show.

You don’t wanna see it, but once you start, it ain’t gonna fucking stop and neither are you.

Either way, Marvel, not worth the time and effort. Better things to do in life than memorize the set ups for 15 diffrent teams, with unique variations amongst those 15, each with multiple scenarios per team and derivative. Plus developing the dexterity to actually execute 1 hit kills, developing method sfor optimizing the guessing game, developing a proper appraoch for each team, plus the sub teams within each team. Not it, fuck that shit. I got better shit to do.

AmishMan53 · July 9, 2013, 11:30am

Mr.Unbrockable:

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

Smoothjazz101:

I’m all for competition but who the fuck wants to spend years of their lives studying a videogame just to be barely competent at it

AmishMan53:

Smoothjazz101:

I’m all for competition but who the fuck wants to spend years of their lives studying a videogame just to be barely competent at it

snip

To be fair it doesn’t take super long to pick up and play any new game now more than ever games are easy to get into. It may take a week or two max to at least know enough to enjoy a game semi competitively.

I will say this, if you never got into tekken, ttt2 will take forever to get good at.

Another main reason i like marvel is that you can get real creative with it. Fruitsy at evo 2012 showed how to win with a ghandi approach lol. This evo will be injustices first, and i don’t expect to see anything new outta the game that i haven’t seen yet. Marvel, it’s a coinflip, somebody could have found something unique to save for evo or not, but it’s exciting to watch in that aspect, and new tech can be carried over into your own gameplay, or change what you have to deal with.

So far marvel has been an ever evolving game, where ssf4 is always the same at its core. I guess the best way to say this is, how many times can you watch the same movie over and over?

Not even. A week or 2 max. The damage is so high in tt2 that youre never dead until you’re dead. Which can be a blessing or a curse depending on how you look at it.

One of the characters i was using in ttt2 is lee, who has a movelist of 80-something. of course 1 and 1,1 are listed as two different moves, but you have to learn not only the moves your opponent has, but what is or isn’t punishable, what has counter hit properties (the 1,1 strings second hit can have a crumple effect on counter hit, and be unsafe on block), crumple combos, solo combos, tag-in combos, cross assault combos, wall carry combos, wall-hit combos, how to break throws (reaction to that shit is hard), throws that look like other throws… i can keep this going if you want.

You can get a few wins with some horrible choice hopkicks that get lucky (combo system isn’t hard), but to play the game at a somewhat competitive level, you won’t get their in a week or two. This is of course my experience and it’s the first tekken game that i even bothered to hit the move list in.

You don’t have to learn every move. Most characters have alot of moves in thier command list that are useful. You generally only use 15 or 20 moves on the list since those tend to be the most useful. You might be surprise at how many moves plain suck or are just used for situational gimmicks and Tekkenzaibatsu is a great place to learn that. With Lee once you learn his wall carry combos he becomes a beast. He isn’t super hard to learn tbh. The Mishimas are however. Next is spacing and movement which you can learn in matches. Hell when I first started I would just outpoke and whiff punish people all the time since I didn’t know a combo and I got wins.

lee wasn’t hard to learn, and it’s weird to say this as i lay on the couch with the laptop on a marvel forum, but i have never been keen on reading things and trying to carry that over. I understand that you really only need your best counter-hit, best launcher, a couple staple combos (you don’t need a tag assault or solo combo to win, but helps for strategy), and then your general strings for mixing up and pressure. I have won a few games on spacing alone, but i refuse to play to my idea of lame at the same time. By lame, i mean relying on one strategy and only taking the game that far. If i’m to learn the character, i would want everything at my disposal so that i’m landing pokes, punishes, counter-hit punish, throws, launcher combos, and even unsafe moves based on a read if i can.

I don’t connect to random people, and the person i played tekken with has learned his characters well enough for this, and i found myself doing stuff i shouldn’t be doing all the time because he knows my characters better than me.

If you look at top-level for tekken, the frame data is extremely important and i can’t keep all that information in my head. In marvel, frame data doesn’t matter and assists make it even less important to know. You just have to learn your characters mixups, confirms, and have a strategy. Or, play XXX/doom/vergil and win on buttons (lol).

d3v · July 9, 2013, 11:45am

If you can prove to me or DevilJin that this is an alt from him, then he’s as good as gone.

Mr.Unbrockable · July 9, 2013, 12:10pm

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

AmishMan53:

Mr.Unbrockable:

Smoothjazz101:

I’m all for competition but who the fuck wants to spend years of their lives studying a videogame just to be barely competent at it

AmishMan53:

Smoothjazz101:

I’m all for competition but who the fuck wants to spend years of their lives studying a videogame just to be barely competent at it

snip

To be fair it doesn’t take super long to pick up and play any new game now more than ever games are easy to get into. It may take a week or two max to at least know enough to enjoy a game semi competitively.

I will say this, if you never got into tekken, ttt2 will take forever to get good at.

Another main reason i like marvel is that you can get real creative with it. Fruitsy at evo 2012 showed how to win with a ghandi approach lol. This evo will be injustices first, and i don’t expect to see anything new outta the game that i haven’t seen yet. Marvel, it’s a coinflip, somebody could have found something unique to save for evo or not, but it’s exciting to watch in that aspect, and new tech can be carried over into your own gameplay, or change what you have to deal with.

So far marvel has been an ever evolving game, where ssf4 is always the same at its core. I guess the best way to say this is, how many times can you watch the same movie over and over?

Not even. A week or 2 max. The damage is so high in tt2 that youre never dead until you’re dead. Which can be a blessing or a curse depending on how you look at it.

One of the characters i was using in ttt2 is lee, who has a movelist of 80-something. of course 1 and 1,1 are listed as two different moves, but you have to learn not only the moves your opponent has, but what is or isn’t punishable, what has counter hit properties (the 1,1 strings second hit can have a crumple effect on counter hit, and be unsafe on block), crumple combos, solo combos, tag-in combos, cross assault combos, wall carry combos, wall-hit combos, how to break throws (reaction to that shit is hard), throws that look like other throws… i can keep this going if you want.

You can get a few wins with some horrible choice hopkicks that get lucky (combo system isn’t hard), but to play the game at a somewhat competitive level, you won’t get their in a week or two. This is of course my experience and it’s the first tekken game that i even bothered to hit the move list in.

You don’t have to learn every move. Most characters have alot of moves in thier command list that are useful. You generally only use 15 or 20 moves on the list since those tend to be the most useful. You might be surprise at how many moves plain suck or are just used for situational gimmicks and Tekkenzaibatsu is a great place to learn that. With Lee once you learn his wall carry combos he becomes a beast. He isn’t super hard to learn tbh. The Mishimas are however. Next is spacing and movement which you can learn in matches. Hell when I first started I would just outpoke and whiff punish people all the time since I didn’t know a combo and I got wins.

lee wasn’t hard to learn, and it’s weird to say this as i lay on the couch with the laptop on a marvel forum, but i have never been keen on reading things and trying to carry that over. I understand that you really only need your best counter-hit, best launcher, a couple staple combos (you don’t need a tag assault or solo combo to win, but helps for strategy), and then your general strings for mixing up and pressure. I have won a few games on spacing alone, but i refuse to play to my idea of lame at the same time. By lame, i mean relying on one strategy and only taking the game that far. If i’m to learn the character, i would want everything at my disposal so that i’m landing pokes, punishes, counter-hit punish, throws, launcher combos, and even unsafe moves based on a read if i can.

I don’t connect to random people, and the person i played tekken with has learned his characters well enough for this, and i found myself doing stuff i shouldn’t be doing all the time because he knows my characters better than me.

If you look at top-level for tekken, the frame data is extremely important and i can’t keep all that information in my head. In marvel, frame data doesn’t matter and assists make it even less important to know. You just have to learn your characters mixups, confirms, and have a strategy. Or, play XXX/doom/vergil and win on buttons (lol).

By semi competitive I mean you can at least play competently. If you aren’t having fun then thats another thing entirely.

discovigilante · July 9, 2013, 12:50pm

I-I know all the frame data for my mains and the important stuff for most other characters. I use it for whiff punishing, frame traps, etc. :x Frame data is just as important, and it’s even more complex as you need to factor in advance guard, the different +frames you get from blocking in the air, counter hits, what kind of special/super cancels your enemy has available, etc. Marvel still has a lot of fighting game fundamentals, they’re just applied in a very different way. Which is one reason I find it interesting and exciting.

Maybe you don’t need to have complete frame knowledge like in Tekken, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. It doesn’t reduce Marvel’s integrity, and Tekken isn’t a better game because you have to memorize frames. You can argue that Marvel doesn’t deserve a spot on the main stage because it’s “less competitive,” but it wouldn’t hold up with tournament organizers and patrons alike. Do you know many fucking people watch golf and olympic diving, games where you actually don’t even have direct impact on your opponent’s performance? It’s slightly inverted for fighting games, thankfully; Marvel and Tekken are both best appreciated when you know what’s going on, but even if all you understand that hitting your opponent a bunch makes them die and you win, you can still enjoy watching it. The difference being that Marvel is flashy, has a lot of colors and characters that people even outside of fighting games know and like, and Tekken is mostly guys and ladies and sometimes animals punching and kicking each other with remarkably similar moves. Also clone characters up the ass, as bad or worse than Smash imo.

Anyway, in regards to Jesus guy vs. many top Marvel 3 players in 3s: you would get your shit crucified by Justin, Chris G, Combofiend, most of the top Japanese players, etc. Don’t front.

Xr0s-up · July 9, 2013, 12:55pm

Chris Gesus is the only lord here mate

scytheavatar · July 9, 2013, 1:06pm

But it’s pretty undeniable that J Wong deserved to lose that round for not being able to finish a lvl 1 XF Wolverine combo. PR Rog obviously downloaded J Wong’s Akuma team so even if that comeback didn’t happen he still would have won that set easily.

d3v · July 9, 2013, 1:08pm

IIRC, Seth Killian himself obce said something in one of his Dom101 article that basically said that frame data, more precisely the need to learn it doesn’t make a game better, especially when you consider that 2D fighters are more about controlling space.

MILF · July 9, 2013, 1:17pm

I like Marvel because of the work gone into making it for example I love the voice acting and stories behind all the character, the interaction, simplicity of the game yet hard to master probably due to x-factor, The colour, character personality representation and rivalries, the freedom and wanting to build the best “team”, also fun game, the competition and creativity although it can get boring seeing shit like the same damn team like Zero, vergil, dante - I want to see variety maybe Ghost rider, Shuma, Iron man etc.

Same reason I like SF voice acting, stories and ethnicity love the country aspect, personality, rivalries and friends. Although SF need to add a couple of Africa country or else it ain’t World warriors

AmishMan53 · July 9, 2013, 1:25pm

discovigilante:

I-I know all the frame data for my mains and the important stuff for most other characters. I use it for whiff punishing, frame traps, etc. :x Frame data is just as important, and it’s even more complex as you need to factor in advance guard, the different +frames you get from blocking in the air, counter hits, what kind of special/super cancels your enemy has available, etc. Marvel still has a lot of fighting game fundamentals, they’re just applied in a very different way. Which is one reason I find it interesting and exciting.

Maybe you don’t need to have complete frame knowledge like in Tekken, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. It doesn’t reduce Marvel’s integrity, and Tekken isn’t a better game because you have to memorize frames. You can argue that Marvel doesn’t deserve a spot on the main stage because it’s “less competitive,” but it wouldn’t hold up with tournament organizers and patrons alike. Do you know many fucking people watch golf and olympic diving, games where you actually don’t even have direct impact on your opponent’s performance? It’s slightly inverted for fighting games, thankfully; Marvel and Tekken are both best appreciated when you know what’s going on, but even if all you understand that hitting your opponent a bunch makes them die and you win, you can still enjoy watching it. The difference being that Marvel is flashy, has a lot of colors and characters that people even outside of fighting games know and like, and Tekken is mostly guys and ladies and sometimes animals punching and kicking each other with remarkably similar moves. Also clone characters up the ass, as bad or worse than Smash imo.

Anyway, in regards to Jesus guy vs. many top Marvel 3 players in 3s: you would get your shit crucified by Justin, Chris G, Combofiend, most of the top Japanese players, etc. Don’t front.

I wasn’t arguing marvel is bad or not competitive, but pointing out why i like marvel and tekken was the best example for what makes me not play it. Also, i enjoy watching all fighting games regardless of my knowledge in the fighting game. I generally understand the basics (jump all day in marvel, don’t jump all day in SSF4 lol) which is enough to get me by watching.

In marvel, you can look up frame data and it’s good knowledge, but you can learn through experience as well. I’ve played basically every character in the cast since it doesn’t take long to get the basic understanding of the character, and a combo or two just to get them in a match and see where their weaknesses are. No way in hell will i be picking up all the characters in tekken due to how much their is to the game, and due to that learning a matchup is that much more difficult.

Tekken definitely seems like it can be very fun, but i just don’t want to spend that kind of time into it. I am not a fighting game player at heart and play many other games way more, and when your friends ARE fighting game players, that puts you at a huge disadvantage in fundamentals alone. I’ve played so much marvel that i’m not going to get surprised by anything a character does, and my execution doesn’t have to be the best either (although my execution has gotten really good from playing it so much). I’m not going to win evo in any years to come, but i have fun with the game and can play competently enough that i can give a decent fight.

Jion_Wansu · July 9, 2013, 1:25pm

I wonder what ST and 3S? GRE and GMAT?

LOL. Injustice and MK 2011 are more competitive than SSF4AE 2012, SFxT 2013, UMVC3, and am I missing something???

Squire_Grooktook · July 9, 2013, 1:29pm

Actually, I think the gist of his post was “you shouldn’t play an inferior game over a superior game just because the inferior game is more popular/has a bigger crowd”.

Personally I agree, what’s arguable though is whether the game in question is inferior or not.

see’s his previous post

Hmmmm…

I think you should play what you like, and that “integrity” is not something to be considered in that choice.

Rokmode · July 9, 2013, 1:33pm

F is for footdives that burn down the whole town
U is for unchallengeable sword normals
N is for No survivors. . . when you land a hit

eivellordsm2 · July 9, 2013, 2:57pm

I play it for mainly haggar as I think it might be the one of the last games he’ll be in as well side scrolling beat em ups have passed really, and after their attempted to put it modern with streetwise that was kind of the nail in the coffin for final fight. Other than that it just simple fun every character is viable one way or another…

ES_Curse · July 9, 2013, 3:24pm

Sadly, you’re right. It’s a shame too, because beat 'em ups were one of my favorite genres, and Haggar was my favorite character from Final Fight. Maybe that’s why I can’t get over him, even though other ideas seem more and more fun to actually play.

Huggy_Bear · July 9, 2013, 4:39pm

Playing Marvel with friends is still stupidly fun.

But watching “”"“High Level”""" Marvel? Get the fuck out. This shit is so boring to watch now, Doom, Vergil, Someone else. Welcome to Marvel. We pick the same 3 characters every game

CaptainGinyu · July 9, 2013, 4:55pm

A tournament stream is like a good episode of the Transformers for many in the FGC.

Yeah, its cool to see what the Autobots are doing to save the world( AE, Tekken, KOF)

But some just want to see the Decepticons beat up on each other and the Autobots. They have the most drama, and the leader changes almost every week.(UMVC3)

EternalFighter · July 9, 2013, 5:36pm

Exactly. This guy gets it…

Pertho · July 9, 2013, 6:14pm

I also play this game because it makes new players feel good. They can pick random characters and just randomly win because they only need one hit. And of course, every time they win it is followed by: “Good job, champ!” and some hugs.