North Carolina Thread LXVI

I’ll try to outline my issues with SGs and compare them to UMVC3 then so you can get a better feel for where I’m coming from:

  • Immediately restood at the end of combos. There’s no teching out of dropped combos and no rolling / recovery because you don’t have the chance, you’re instantly restood where the opponent wants you. This is more similar to Akuma’s Vortex where he has control of the situation and you’re forced to guess. This coupled with:
  • No throw protection. You can transition from being comboed / pressured to being thrown instantly at any time.This is especially hard to deal with when the assist characters are layered on top of the point characters and you can’t see whats happening.
  • The majority of throws lead to a full combo without any resources spent, and no assists used. This is true for SOME marvel characters but it’s much easier to avoid throws in Marvel as well and the combos usually don’t lead to as much damage.
  • 100% combos popping up all over the place already. Marvel took a while to get to that point but skullgirls has 100%'s going pretty much week 1. It’ll get worse and more consistent as time goes on.
  • Invincible assists. This is a matter of preference but I HATE invincible assists. Atleast in Marvel they were close range and you could avoid them but in SGs, double’s butt provides the lockdown of something like Jam session, with the invincibility of Haggar’s lariat. It’s a brain dead all purpose poking / pressure / lock down / reversal / anti air / anti ground just straight up retarded move that dumbs down the game.
  • Push block doesn’t work in a lot of situations. In marvel push blocking atleast works like it’s supposed to but in SGs half the time if the opponent’s state changes, they don’t even get pushed away, but your character is still immobilized in push block state regardless. It feels like it just doesn’t function like it’s supposed to. A good example is painwheel going into flight mode canceling push block. She can basically attack and if she gets push blocked just fly and cancel the push. The offense in SGs is BETTER than the offense in Marvel and yet the pushblock is worse.
  • Long story short, the offense in this game feels brain dead and just too much in favor of the attacker.
  • Assist characters also take regular damage. There’s very little threat to calling your assist whenever, all the god damn time, because they barely take any damage, and if they do get hit, most of the time they’re just soaking up hits that would have connected with the point character anyway, so it’s a win win.
  • The combos in that game are too god damn long, and I come from Marvel. They’re also not even thoughtful or hard to do. It’s literally just do a chain, do the same chain again but starting with a different normal. Do this as many times as you can, then do a super. Some characters have 15-20 second combos of JUST THIS before super. And after super…
  • Characters can combo off DHCs, but this resets the damage scaling and IPS detection. Once people get this down 100%, I think every hit will be touch of death.

Seriously, it’s a long list. I know Marvel isn’t without it’s flaws but it feels more well designed and there’s less stupidity going on in every match. If people don’t believe me then I urge them to pick up skullgirls and find out for themselves.

But anyway, on top of all this, I do feel the game is going to die. 8 characters and an art style that doesn’t appeal to many people in an abusive system that will turn a lot of people off just isn’t a recipe for a game with a long life.

Brent: Calibur is partly because there’s no scene for the game but I really really dislike guard breaks. Your guard gauge does not recover unless you go like 30 seconds without blocking anything and that’s pretty much impossible in Calibur. You pretty much are going to get guard broken every single match against some characters and there’s just nothing you can do about it other than try to pick the right time to be guard broken so maybe you don’t get rung out when it does break. I wouldn’t have an issue if the guard gauge was recoverable at a reasonable rate, but it just doesn’t. I feel like the system was there to punish overly defensive play but instead it just punishes you for blocking. I liked it better in 4 because atleast in that game when you got guard broken you really deserved it because the opponent over extended and really made you block a ton of shit without retaliation, and even if you were in danger, you could go on the offensive and get your gauge back.

I don’t want to lose games to people where I didn’t make any mistakes and just had to take my routine unavoidable guard break from blocking back and forth moves as you always do in soul calibur.

It’s been eating at me for a while but after playing doug and eating like 3 guard breaks in one match, I just said fuck it, I’m done. It wasn’t really the losing that bothered me, I expected to lose since Doug plays it regularly, it was just reflecting on the matches and realizing I just don’t enjoy the game or what it offers.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, just wanted to explain my thoughts.

Also, I’m not QUITE done with skullgirls… I have one last surprise next Wednesday before I quit… but I am going out with a bang. Look forward to it!

And the talk today is of EA buying out THQ.

But that video is hilarious: “EA has turned around.” No they haven’t. They’ve lost money for 5 years in a row. The CEO should be shown the door. “And their competition Zynga reports earning tomorrow.” Yep, and lost 9.5% of its value.

Geez I can’t imagine another company buying out EA.

EA is in a bad place; hell, most of the industry is (recession-proof my ass).

So you want the game to be easier and exactly like marvel 3?

edit: seriously all your complaints just make me think “You should have played marvel 2”

Not easier, just less retarded system mechanics.

Seriously though, explain how you like some of this stuff / think it adds to the game?

Edit: I think I would like the game if they follow through with the double nerf, add a bit of throw protection when being reset, make IPS recognize the same string over and over started with a different normal, and maybe make it so you can tech out of dropped combos instead of just being restood. Most of the stupidity that goes on is after someone gets hit. I enjoy the neutral game in skull girls.

Marvel 2 is vastly superior to Marvel 3 though

How was it vastly superior out of curiosity?

Yeah, that’s pretty much what I told Doug it probably was. I seem to remember that offense actually recovered your gauge in SC4, it was possible to actually get it way past the “neutral” state it starts in, you could make it flash white or something iirc. I understand the point, but I don’t know if it’s any better/worse than the nonsense in other games. The better you get, the more you can avoid whatever it is and exploit other things to defeat it, etc. If we were a bit more awesome, we could do some smart GIs with our meter (those still exist, I forget about them lol) or even Just Guards if you were even more amazing (several SC players are doing this) to negate the GB threat. Doug starts rushing me with evasive property moves when he’s flashing and it’s pretty hard to deal with him then.

However, there isn’t that much of a scene for the game, yeah, and Astaroth is a JEERRRKK

Sony Smash Brothers looks pretty terrible. I’m a fan of approximately zero Sony franchises too so that doesn’t help.

It’s fun xD

Honestly I can’t really comment on UMvC3. My only real reference is Eric who plays both well. He likes them both. I guess the only thing that really bothers me is the fact you can otg way too many times in one combo and you can’t do anything about it. It feels like easy mode Marvel and Marvel is already easy mode.

Yeah I figured the answer to guard breaks is supposed to be just guard but that’s… hard. And I’m not enough of a SC head to bother learning all the timings for that lol.

Also, Sony characters are boring. Not very hype for that new game >_<

Yeah I guess the OTG thing does bother a lot of people. It’s just kinda part of the game eventually, you just consider it part of the combo after a while. MVC2 was hard as balls though >_<

MVC3 definitely made it a lot more accessible for newer players (and more then 3-5 characters are playable lol).

It Really Is!

I don’t want to write out an essay so I’ll just say a lot of your complaints seem to come from unfamiliarity of the system and just being used to how mvc3 works.
-Assists being invincible and taking less damage also comes with them not doing their attack if the point character is hit before the assist hits the ground, and they hang around vulnerable for a while after they do their attack
-The reset systems harks back to MvC2. I don’t think it’s a problem that you can’t turn your brain off when you see your getting getting comboed until you see them bounce out. I never liked that aspect of mvc3.
-the invincibility from double’s assist should be taken away but you all need to stop acting like it’s unbeatable. I find it pretty easy to avoid once I recognize assist call patterns and just jump over it. Painwheel and ms. fortune in particular don’t seem to give a fuck about it.

EDIT: the pushblock system also works like mvc2, where you can’t actually push them away until the blockstring ends. but when you pushblock earlier it cuts all the blockstun in half while your pushblock animation runs

Don’t forget all invincible assists (like all assists) have an added 2-frames of start-up so a meaty attack can still stuff them.
Cerebella with Titan Knuckle is great for this.

Also it has no xfactor which is like +50 points right there

I like using cerecopter since it reminds me of using doom rocks to stuff commando assist

Those 2 frames are mad inconsistent to hit though. I’ll have something on top of them and the assist is like “nope”.

As far as I remember though, MVC2 didn’t restand people out of combos. That’s specific to skull girls.

2 frame startup is still better than 0 frames.

Jon, if you’re just not very enthusiastic about the series, that’s one thing. Though that’s why I didn’t feel like writing an essay about your guard break complaints in the first place, because if ultimately you don’t care, why should I expend the effort? Just Guard is not the only answer. There are other options, each coming with their own level of effort and risk, and the more you put them together the fewer guard breaks you encounter.

Isn’t that all fighting games, though? They all have something weird, or difficult, or stupid, but after a while (if you like playing it) they just become a part of the game. Parrying, OTG, Guard Breaks, Just Frames, and whatever else has been in games over the years.

In Skullgirls (since that’s the only game I can talk anywhere near knowledgeably about) it seems like you have to get used to seeing each characters moves, and the states they put you in. “Alright, this move puts me in a re-stand, will she follow up before I hit the ground? No? Okay, he’s trying something!” Then you have to learn to recognize the situation and the character more specifically (which will be easiest now while there are only 8 characters, and you learn a new one every 2-3 months). Is it Valentine? She’s going for a normal throw, because that’s her best combo option. Is it Cerebella? Probably a command throw. Ms. Fortune? Where is her head? And so on. Each player will also have patterns, like they do in every other fighting game. “Oh snap! His Parasoul just launched me into straight air grab! I didn’t see that coming!” So, from now on, when that person launches you, you know, for some reason, they want to mash grab. So you tech, or if you have an air super, you super (and, of course, doing it repeatedly will change his game plan; super is only a viable option once or twice).

If you don’t like a game, then of course you aren’t going to be able to tolerate it’s funky mechanics. I can’t stand UMVC3, and I think OTGs are stupid. Once a character is knocked down, you really shouldn’t be able to pick them back up over and over and over and over and over and over again: that goes against every other fighting game I’ve ever played. I like Marvel, and I like Capcom, and maybe if Megaman was in vanilla I would have given the game more than a week before returning it, but I don’t like the game. Therefore, I can’t like it’s fighting mechanics. It doesn’t mean the game is bad, and I don’t go around saying so because that would be unfair of me: all it means is that I haven’t learned to love it, and might never. Because, honestly, even if it had the best mechanics in any fighting game, I probably still wouldn’t like it. That’s what I call “Human Error”. Somehow, if we dislike something, then it doesn’t matter how good or how good for us it is, we will reject it.

I tried to play that game (before the patch), and it just felt so odd. I really didn’t like Guard Breaks, because they felt like they were punishing me for being new at the game. I played it for a little over a month and was pretty decent with Tira, I had a nice combo that looked amazing that I could get out 95% of the time, but Guard breaks just always seemed like a major problem. The game doesn’t even teach you anything about itself, so you are forced to go online to discover the ways to get around it, something I don’t do for fighting games: If I can’t figure it out on my own after the tutorial, then I feel I don’t deserve to know it. Side stepping almost never seemed to work, I couldn’t Just Gaurd, I couldn’t land Tira’s green gaurd neck guillotine move online, and if I ever fought someone who knew anything about anything, I lost. I got up to a B5 before I quit.

So who’s hosting today?