I’m seriously jealous that I didn’t get to make it out to ReSe. Nobody in Fayetteville felt like going so I was kinda left out. Any results?
What we were on is called NO sleep and lots of energy drinks.
Yeah we were on some wild shit last night. Face is a great host, dude offered me a beer and brought me a pillow. That ride back had to be the strangest (yet best) drive conversation ever. I dont think anyone would understand if we even tried to tell them about it lol.
Also I think im looking at keeping Billy to open, dropping Robert altogether because he is too meter dependent, his HD combos are too exection heavy and the throw protection shit makes his command grab almost USELESS, then putting Kyo or EX Kyo in my second spot, and keeping Clark as my finisher. I really have to focus on not giving away those openings and making my setups less predictable. I could have beat Roski in semis had I just not went for my standard short hop C/air throw trap against him KNOWING full well he had bar with Maxima.
Will:
Marvel: 1) Raccoon 2) Jon 3) Ice (ATL player) 4) one of the other ATL players 5) also another ATL player lol
KoF: 1) Darrell 2) Jon 3) Roski 4) Angus
AE) 1) Druseph
Marvel teams GA vs NC: NC’s team was Me, Conrad, Sneak, Jesus, and some other guy, other team was all ATL players.
Which boiled down to ATL OCVing everyone except me and then me OCVing everyone except Raccoon lol
Demo: in KoF you really have to confirm that your DP is going to hit before you do it. Unless they don’t have meter or something. Because the risk (losing the round) doesn’t outweight the 2% damage most of the uppercuts do. The only time I would even consider blindly doing one as a reversal is when you’re completely mind fucked in the corner and just know you’re going to get hit anyway. But yeah, don’t do it most of the time, just block. There’s enough throw protection that the mixups are manageable on wakeup.
[LEFT]
[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Im’a pm you my number bruh for future events. For everyone else in Fayetteville…I travel as often as I can to Charlotte’s events. Simply pm if your interested in rides or want to carpool. [/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Its been pointed out that I don’t show up to the weeklies…before it was school now its mostly because I don’t have a 360 stick other then the tekken that I honestly don’t feel like modding and because I wasn’t playing street fighter at that time. I am now getting back into it and waiting on the Akishop Ps360 Pcb board from focus attack for my TE…ordered it last summer just waiting for them to finally start shipping those suckers out. However, i will show up not this week but next week and start coming out at least twice a month. The other two weeks I will be going to Charlotte’s ranbats.
So my question is, can I bring a ps3 setup with MK to EZ? And would anyone play it if i brought it? [/LEFT]
Sorry I couldn’t be there to help you against the ATL onslaught, I figured the teams were going to be ATL against you + 4 guys who were just going to lose to ATL. Sounds like it was the best tournament experience in a long time, missing that one is going to haunt me (even though there wasn’t much I could’ve done, I’m just salty since it was probably my last chance to see a lot of people).
Since you’re giving KOF advice how my team of Daimon/Benimaru/Shen? Shen has pretty much been the only character featured on all of my teams. Clark had that distinction as well until I dropped him for Daimon cause he felt like a better overall grappler. Aside from that I’ve cycled through a bunch of characters to fill that final slot including Kyo, EX Iori, Duo Lon, Robert and now Benimaru.
EDIT:
Even though I don’t host the EZ tournaments anymore I’d like to see y’all come out on the 28th just so I can say goodbye since I leave the Wednesday after it (I have about 2 1/2 weeks left).
Don’t do it!
Your team dies to zoning / lame out it looks like. Might want to throw in a more versatile character somewhere in there. Also move Daimon to second maybe? But I dunno he doesn’t build the opponent meter with his throws so he might be good first. I just fear for you fighting a team with like athena, andy, kensou, etc etc.
Sorry you didn’t make it man. Wilmington said they’d come up for some games sometime when they have off so if Roski / Angus can get their schedule lined up, I’ll host on that day and maybe you can come up?
Yo roski preciate the beer bro slamin em down now. Good shit to everyone
Was going to quote your post but then the pimp dog showed up in my post and I didn’t feel like spamming images = P
Anyways, my team actually doesn’t lose to zoning, all of them have meterless ways of dealing with projectiles along with even better ways once they get meter. Daimon can do the ground pound which even on trade is in my favor since it does more damage than a projectile and gives me a knockdown, honestly half the time I just do the fake version to bait people into jumping then proceed to AA. Beni can do TK raijinkens to nullify the projectile and advance forward at the same time, with meter he can do EX lightnings. Shen can do his projectile reflector (although it absorbs instead of reflects) then do his dash punch feint to build meter and recover faster, of course with meter I can just do super punches on reaction. I know how well my team does against zoning because I was pretty much beating most of the Fayetteville players except Kevin cause he was the only one trying to zone me out (which Clark who was pretty much the star of my team kept losing to). Other players such as Sal has started catching on and just proceeded to zone out my Clark as well.
As for Daimon being first I actually gave this a lot of thought. A lot of people have him as an anchor cause he can do easy 100% combos but I feel a more ideal anchor should be able to use meter in the neutral game. Daimon honestly doesn’t use much meter in the neutral game compared to Beni or Shen and can still perform near 100% combos even with only 3 stock (hell he can do 50% damage drive only combos which is preferred since drive builds back faster). More importantly I put him first because he counters a lot of the characters that are normally played on point. Most point characters are good batteries that rush down but rushing down Daimon is fairly hard with his wall of pokes/AA’s and his invincible command grab. Other point characters tend to zone since without meter most characters don’t have good ways of dealing with projectiles do to a lack of EX’s or GC rolls. Daimon on the other hand has his ground pound and ground pound feint which is a great deterrent to someone who wants to throw projectiles.
That was an amazing time last night. I still have not slept do to the adrenaline of KOF. GGs to everyone to came out good to see all the old heads and new cats. John that corner session was on another level! Im down for more games whenever so less keep this thing going.
Let’s see how I want to approach this.
-
Correlation does not imply causation. While strong players tend to gravitate to strong characters, the idea of a character being S tier because the winning player used them is not always true. If everyone at the tournament had Takuma on their team, this would be a slightly better indicator, though still not accurate.
-
My position is not so much that Takuma is not S tier, as I feel like I have nowhere near enough knowledge of the game to make a definitive assessment of character placement. It’s more of a protest to these casually stated opinions that Takuma is S tier, when NO ONE in NC is good enough at KOF to reliably say that character X or character Y is this good or this bad. Is Takuma strong? I think so. But I can’t rank him at S tier and feel confident about it. It’s like what I said when fighting Roski yesterday “WHY do people think Takuma is S tier?”
To be fair, I think I’ve beaten Jon’s Takuma all of one or two times, but I think I have a better handle on the game now, so no idea how that would go at this point. Playing Roski, who plays Takuma first, gave me a better feel for what the character has problems with, since I got to fight him with K’, who is probably my best character, or at least the one I’m most comfortable with.
There are a lot of factors, but using the point you were trying to make (Takuma played by top 3 at NC tournament means he must be good), NC is the ONLY player group that I’ve seen make this statement. Every list coming from more “reputable” scenes has him at a more realistic high-mid ranking. This is not to bring our player group down, but you’re talking about players who just got their hands on the game (Darrell aside) and comparing their ideas to those of player groups who not only have been playing arcade KOF XIII since it released, but who have been playing KOF forever. Something doesn’t add up. It’s not like anyone in NC is doing anything unique or special with Takuma. It seems more like everyone went “command grab + only 1 stock and HD = 90% damage. Ergo, top tier!”
I’ll try to break down what I think are the character’s strengths and weaknesses:
Strengths:
- Damage! (not just HD, his regular damage happens to be very high as well)
- Command grab gives him alternate option for breaking down defense and leads to high damage. EX is invincible and can serve as reversal.
- Strong hop game due to j.CD allowing him to bully his way in. Good normals to hop in with and start combos.
- Jumping D excellent for crossups.
- Able to zone somewhat with fireballs, EX tracks.
- C ranbu super works as reversal and anti air, as does Neomax.
- His normal throw is actually pretty good as well, untechable knockdown and thus can set up a crossup.
Weaknesses:
- Defensively weak. Particularly poor at anti air and anti hop. He must commit to countering with supers or early hop CD or crouch C. This makes him inherently risky when defending. EX command grab can be used as a reversal, but loses to hopping, which makes it a super dangerous option (all or nothing).
- Command grab is slow and has puny range. When combined with the prevalence of throw protection on wakeup and out of guard stun, it makes his offense less flexible.
- Difficult to combo off of lights due to his dependence on charge move (Hien Shippu Kyaku) to combo afterwards, further lending to inflexibility of his offensive game.
- His pokes have very short range. Hurts him in mid range game.
- Fireball zoning is weak (he’s no Athena). EX fireball can be rolled on reaction if opponent is paying attention, making it a waste of meter in a zoning war and relegating it to a ranged anti air.
- While he does great damage with low meter, he relies on meter in defensive situations, which makes him less flexible in terms of team placement. Not a major weakness but something to consider and basically a trade off for being able to deal high damage with limited resources.
So what you have is a short range rushdown character who does very high damage, but lacks a plethora of offensive options and is weak on defense. Does that sound like a recipe for a top tier character? Given that space control is one of the single most important aspects of fighting games, I have a hard time justifying S tier placement for Takuma.
I feel like jump back CD pretty much solves a huge range of his defensive problems though. I was experimenting with it last night at Face’s and it seriously feels like it beats everything. Grounded anti airs, grounded pokes, jump ins, air to airs. It’s a retarded move. If you get it counter hit you can tag on another one, and now they’re cornered and you can even get EX punches into command grab stuff if you have an HD stock. I’m still new to the game as well so obviously I don’t know everything, but this seems like the single best attack in the game to me. You could probably beat someone with just that move, and have it be a viable strategy. If you watch darrells matches, it literally boils down to do jump CD a lot. Ok they gave up anti airing it, now he gets a command grab. And that shit works.
Granted I do see the better players putting the more versatile characters without any glaring weakness in the top top tiers, you have to wonder if Takuma’s glaring advantages make up for that weakness on defense that he has.
Also not sure if people know this but he can combo his EX flying kick off of his lights, since the HK version doesn’t work.
The one thing I don’t get is why people run him on point. He’s way better with meter IMO. Also, his fireballs get people to move, so that’s really all you want them for anyway. I don’t think they’re bad. They have good hitboxes / speed on the two versions. Recovery isn’t fantastic but it’s not bad either.
Javier: Yeah man, I had a lot of fun playing you, your reactions are crazy. I had to really tighten up and not play haphazard or you were gonna rape me. Your defense is also spot on. NC is gonna run this game! (as long as mexico doesn’t appear). Hope to see you at my place in the future!
Good shit to everyone at that tourney. Sometime or another I’ll swing on through and help Jon with that ATL infestation lol
Almost at that one month mark! I really hope to see more NC at this event. We had a good turnout last time (about 40 total entrants), and are hoping to double it this time.
70+ confirmed on the FB event page!
this is good because i also like long walks on the beach and short walks on the not beach.
Man, I can’t wait to play KOF with more of you guys. I’m free on Monday too.
Justin: I think I’ll see if I can round some peeps up and head out to this. Marvel, KoF, SCV?!?! Too hype!
Just gotta help me with putting down a certain raccoon. I can handle the rest =D
You’re free every day Brent <3
Would you be up for hosting? Or do I need to open le doors?
Jump back CD is useful, but you have to stand your ground eventually. Otherwise you end up cornered, and that’s not where Takuma wants to be, ever.
As far as on offense, hop CD has one big disadvantage, and that’s the fact that if you are using it to shut down your opponent’s grounded game and hop game, you have to do it early. Otherwise, you open yourself up to anti airs. But if you do it early, it doesn’t hit crouchers…and there’s no trip guard in this game. Someone sees you like to spam hop CD, they bait it once, you land on lights into combo. Bam, you take damage and now you’re probably on defense. Same deal if you try to empty jump into command grab, that slow throw isn’t going to beat meaty lights. In addition, unless I’m cornered, I have no problem hopping a lot against a rushing Takuma, because I’m not really afraid of combos off of lights (dependent on meter and difficult to do, can’t convert to HD easily). So I’ll hop a lot, then you go for the command grab and eat a full combo. He’s strong, but he really feels like an all or nothing character. Either you get in and you get going with your game, or you get put on defense and you do nothing.
There are S tier characters who have amazing strengths that overshadow otherwise minor weaknesses. Takuma doesn’t strike me as this, mostly because his strengths aren’t so glaring. He does a lot of damage, I get it, but there are plenty of characters in the game who can achieve his damage with slightly more resources, and they’re more flexible. Meter is like water in this game. This is another minor weakness of Takuma, since his big damage comes from HD: that combo may do 90% and only cost you one stock and HD, but you just gave your opponent two whole stocks and almost 75% HD. You’d better hope that was their last character.
Fireball zoning is not a super effective strategy in KOF because of rolling and hopping. Takuma’s fireballs actually have pretty lame recovery, so all someone has to do to make you stop throwing them is to move into mid range. If you try to throw a fireball there, it’ll get jumped and you’ll eat a combo. They’re good at full screen, and that’s about it.
Like, if I wanted to compare Takuma to a character who I think is really good, I would pick Shen. Shen is similar to Takuma in that he is all about getting in your face and high damage, but his options are much, much more flexible. He’s more reliant on stock, but his options with stock are so powerful that you would be foolish to write him off. His pressure game is better, he can HD off of crouching lights into ridiculous damage and with stock he can easily deal half life for zero effort without expending any HD whatsoever. He spits on any projectile zoning game due to his ability to smack fireballs with Danken, and since he can feint Gekiken at full screen to build meter, he can force other characters to come to him and play his game. At midscreen, his Zetsu Gekiken super will blast through most zoning attempts for huge damage, and if it hits as a counter, you get wall bounced for more combo. And honestly, with some of the nerfs he got in console, he’s probably not really a candidate for top tier anymore. He’s just a character who I’m familiar with. If I played Iori, I’d use him as an example, since he is widely seen as top now and he is another good rush character with a command grab.
Shen doesn’t have any ranged options though unlike Takuma. That makes a pretty big difference. You can counter fireballs all day but that’s not really threatening. With Takuma at range you have to atleast be alert and reactive, and you can’t just throw fireballs at him because he has EX fireball, and super fireballs to worry about. Shen also can’t just do command grab > HD combos like Takuma. Mid range, Shen seems more threatening, and he has better pokes.
j.CD hits crouchers I think, long as you don’t do it immediately. It stays active for a while. Like almost to the peak of your jump and then as you descend, it should cover anti air and anti ground pretty well.
thanks! i was really interested in hearing your opinion on it because i missed that entire conversation. i can respect that sir.
Shen builds meter at range so he can then move into midrange and threaten your zoning with supers. Suddenly if you do ANYTHING you get punched in the face. That’s why he’s strong at range, because while he can’t threaten damage, he can certainly get some resources that let him threaten with damage. You’d be foolish to throw fireballs at him all day, you’re just feeding his rape machine and getting nothing for it (fireballs get you no meter).
Shen can start HD combos off of command grab by doing a bypass into HD. This makes his hop game a lot scarier because he can do late j.C for overhead, or land and bypass into EX grab (which is invincible), or he can land and do cr.B into HD. This is what I mean by flexibility in offense. Takuma has command grab…and command grab.
j.CD doesn’t hit crouchers unless you do it later in your hop. As I mentioned, this opens you up to anti airs. Simple standing A or reversal moves will work fine. I tested this in training mode. Most people who are trying to get in with Takuma try to blast their way in with hop CD in order to cover the other person’s hop or jump game. You have to do it early for it to work that way. Someone doesn’t hop, you get trip guarded. It’s good, but it’s not “best move in the game” material, there are legit counters. Also means the few turtly defensive characters will beat that strat for free, since you will get anti aired the second you leave the ground. And the way I see it, if you get countered by a character like Ash, that really hurts your argument for being top tier.
Demo: No problem, sir. I tend to over think things, so that makes for good analysis.