just to get a last minute jump in on this argument. This Wesker vs. Zero thing kinda boils down to how the God tier looked in MvC2. Mags and Sentinel were better characters but for a long time, Storm was always top because of overall value to the team. You can’t for get that marvel is a team game and your team gets exponentially better with Wesker having an otg assist compared to Zero being on the team. Just in the sense of overall value to the team, I feel that Wesker is better. He’s good on point with a good assist and he’s good as an assist to other characters extended combos. Just my 2 cents.
Charlotte is waaaaay to far for me to go right now, but thanks for the offer :). Just trying to scope out the competition for myself at the moment. I haven’t really found anyone else much in Raleigh that plays, so I don’t think a carpool would work out from the same city. Charlotte is a pretty big city so I’m sure you guys have a lot of players huh? Maybe sometime I’ll come up and take a peek ;). For now I’ll keep looking for something closer.
Where at in Raleigh does Erik stay? Also, do you stay in Raleigh too? If so, where are you having your gathering and at what time?
Wesker’s value depends on the other characters as well, though. Not everyone benefits equally from that assist, and some characters benefit more from having other assists, to the point where putting Wesker on a team is a liability. I know that may sound ridiculous, but for an easy example, look at Team Trench Coat (Dante/Vergil/Wesker). I don’t care how good you think Wesker is, any way you arrange that team, one character is going to get screwed over. Ideally you want Vergil first because he is the most assist dependent character, but if he dies off early, either Wesker gets stuck with Dante and you have anchor Dante (not the best anchor ever), or you have Dante stuck with Wesker, when he really needs a good projectile assist. You can put Dante first, but again, same scenario, one of your characters is going to get screwed over. Putting Wesker first with Dante second and Vergil third can work out, but it’s not ideal for Dante and Vergil really doesn’t get to shine (though with meter he is a frightening anchor).
This is one example. Wesker is really not the super awesome character some people think he is. He’s like any other character in the game, works really well when he has a team that suits his needs. If you have characters that really benefit from that assist, then yes, you can anchor him. Just make sure your other two characters are not super dependent on a particular assist type. Otherwise I think he’s best either point or second, usually point (I currently play Vergil/Wesker/Doom).
Yeah, if every character in the game had a 1-frame command grab that led to a full combo anywhere on the screen, free X-Factor, and a gun.
NC Thread LXIV: Is Wesker really good or REALLY good?
Really the thing about Wesker is X-factor. If you can somehow manage to run his XFlvl3 out then dealing with regular Wesker goes back to being anyones game. That speed boost is what really sends me over the edge.
I’ll never settle on a real team so I’ll just continue to play gimmick teams from here on out. Right now I’m using Trish/Ghostrider/Arthur. Stay back.
Hopefully Zasalamel is announced in Calibur 5. Otherwise I’m waiting on DoA5 and them 1080p titties.
Cold blooded.
So Jon is doing that thing again where he argues that his character isn’t top, right? I don’t feel like reading this the whole way through cuz it’s too damn early.
Zero is #1, and I don’t think it’s close. Wesker is better right up in your face, but literally everywhere else, it’s advantage Zero.
I’m not arguing that Zero isn’t top, I do think he’s top 5, but I don’t think he’s #1 or even close to. He’s too hindered by zoning and defensive play to counter all styles of play and characters. This whole ZERO IS THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME, JUSTIN WONG SAID IT, JUST LIKE HE SAID SENTINEL WAS, HERE’S A SITUATIONAL COMBO VIDEO WITH A SPECIFIC TEAM AND SOME SHIT YOU’LL NEVER DO IN A REAL MATCH stuff has got to go. People aren’t sitting down and researching the character and his weakness, they’re more content to band wagon hate on him and not actually understand why the character is good and where he falls short.
Meanwhile people like Erik put real time into the game and do research and they find ways to beat it. I can say tonight that he had atleast 3-4 really good answers to Zero with different characters, to the point where he was almost a non-factor in all our matches.
I’m just sick of the whining when I play the character and see his limitations while people that barely even play the game sit around and complain about it. You wanna know why you’re getting beat by Zero NC? You suck at Marvel and have no dedication at the game. There I said it.
lol Jon says all of his characters are awesome, until other people say they’re awesome too.
Regarding Justin Wong, I’m aware that he has a tendency to make poor character judgments. I’m not taking whatever he says into account here. Though I will say, given his experience in general, he probably knows something we don’t.
I’m well aware that Zero has weaknesses like anyone else. The thing is, that doesn’t suddenly make him bad or less annoying. I’d venture that a character who basically forces you to run away from him until you can use a long range assist to pin him down long enough to run a mixup is pretty damn good.
For the record, I’m not arguing “ZERO NUMBAH ONE”, I’m just saying, why are you so vehement about not putting him on the same level as Wesker? The stuff you’ve been saying about Wesker is stuff that basically becomes irrelevant when you begin to rank characters. Yes, Wesker is easier to play and has some tools that are easier to use. This will matter for maybe a year or two max. After that, if the character ends up being exposed, nobody’s gonna care how easy he is.
As far as coming out and saying people suck and have no dedication, well, that’s just another weekly episode of “According to Jon (Jon’s a Nice Guy)”. I’ll admit that I suck at Marvel and I have other priorities.
But here’s the thing for me, at least. When you pick teams with Zero on them, Zero is hands down the most annoying character for me to deal with. He is the only character that literally makes me feel like I can’t do a damn thing. I know that if I get rid of Zero, the match is only going to get easier. Incidentally, other people may feel the same way, which may be why your Zero sees death so often in matches; people will go out of their way to kill him, and he doesn’t have a ton of life, so it’s not like he’s that hard to kill. And if you don’t pick Zero in the first place? It’s like a whole different game then. It just makes everything so much easier.
I know you’re gonna get offended and you’re gonna talk about your tournament record and how bad you body me in Marvel 3 (with Zero), but I’ll just come out and say it, since we’re being “honest” instead of “nice guys”. When I play Erik, Erik makes it evident to me that he is better than me at Marvel. When I play you, you make it evident to me that without Zero on your team, you are really not much better than me at all. Yes, your other characters do work, but if I lose after killing Zero, it’s usually my own fault. And if you don’t pick Zero at all, I don’t feel worried. This is part of why I always badger you to play Zero, because that’s what I have trouble with. Not your other random secondary teams where you don’t have super safe normals and Buster to cover you.
But anyway, I’m just some older guy who is bad at Marvel, so whatever.
Too lazy to multiquote so I’ll just do the number thing:
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A lot of characters in fighting games force you to change how you play against them. Look at Zangeif for instance. You CANNOT fight Zangeif on your own terms, he will body you. He’s annoying as shit, but even with that fact, he doesn’t really win majors or even appear in top 8 except once in a blue moon. I look at Zero as sort of the Geif of Marvel. People that accept that he does what he does and adapt to it can beat him. People that try to run their regular game will get bullied because most of their normals can’t compete.
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Honestly, even after like a week and a half of putting serious time into Wesker, I feel like my Wesker is already at a decent level compared to my Zero. They do practically the same thing… both have stupid hit boxes, do good damage, and run left / right / entry mixups effectively. Wesker has more health and doesn’t die quite so hard to zoning. He also has command grab that leads to consistent 600-700k before DHCs so that’s an options Zero doesn’t have. I know things may change 2 years or so down the road but you have to consider the age we are in. Games don’t get fleshed out like Marvel 2 anymore. We’ll have a new iteration of the game on our hands this time next year probably. If a character takes years to get to their potential then it’s very likely we won’t even get to see it in a games lifespan now.
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Well, Zero is obviously my best character, I’ve put the most time into him so that’s to be expected. It’s like fighting any of your characters that aren’t Wesker.
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Honestly, I know you shit on my Dante all the time but I think pretty much every time our two Dantes have come face to face, I’ve always won. I know my other characters aren’t directly as scary as Zero, although I think my Dante might be there after tonight, I do have a good tournament record. I beat Erik maybe 70/30. I believe there’s a certain playstyle that you respect or maybe stuff I’m doing that you don’t really follow since it seems like a lot of people don’t focus on the mental aspect of it, just “oh this guy did a cool setup” or “hey he had a nice combo” when really I think it’s more about reading the other player and making openings out of that, the character is just a tool for that. Even if it’s sloppy, IE half of my Dante wins, it works.
Anyway, I don’t mean to come off as a dick saying people suck, but realistically, NC just doesn’t put the effort into the game other than maybe me and Erik. Will is good but he doesn’t really put much lab time in or try to advance past the easy cheese, so I feel like he’s gonna stagnate a bit there. OJ is good but he’s also kind of stagnant for now, and I feel like he relied a bit too much on early Phoenix inexperience to get by, you can kind of see it affecting his gameplay now. Outside of that, we don’t really have anyone in NC playing it “like that”, so it bugs me seeing people complain about a character they haven’t even put time into learning how to beat when they don’t even play the game really.
Im not a marvel player but honestly I just don’t see it. If zero is really the best character in the game why were there very few zeros at SCR? Meanwhile, Wesker was on more than half of the teams in top 16. Outside of flocker, how many zeros have won a major?
also, just wanted to thank everyone that came to the session last night. it was most definitely the hypest and best session of the year.
I just hope next time we have a session like that, people announce it ahead of time so people who don’t have a lot of flexibility at work can actually plan to be there.
I can see that opinion. I’m trying out NESTS and Original Kyo some right now. Both are good characters IMO, just like the Ioris, but I think it comes down to what that character can do for you. Its hard for me to say that one Kyo is better than the other since both have different tools that I can use for specific things. NESTS Kyo is more to my play style thinking so I’m leaning towards him at the moment more so than Original Kyo. I’m starting to like Claw Iori more myself, but I haven’t given up on Flame. Doubt I’ll ever main either, but I like Iori as a character so who knows what may happen. Hopefully I get some more time to really sit down and test/practice a bunch of other stuff out before I leave.
YES! Other than SOR: Remix this will probably end up becoming one of my favorite BEU. And best of all, its free. JUSTICE!
Won’t be able to play much until the new year, but if you’re looking for someone in the Raleigh area to play hit me up. If I ever go to other places outside of Raleigh to play you can tag along if you like. I like 3S so we can hit that up sometime. Maybe even some MvC3 as well.
One word…MONEY. I feel so ripped off from fighting games these days.
I stay in Raleigh so if you ever want to play sometime just hit me up. Just like I told sixtymhz I probably won’t be able to play much until the new year and if I ever go outside of Raleigh to play you can tag along as well. What games do you play? Mainly as of now I’m into KOF XIII and Tekken 6, but I don’t mind playing other fighting games as well. Also, neither of those guys stay in Raleigh. 
I might drop by. Would be a little late probably, but I may just drop by for a few matches.
There are a lot of people playing in Raleigh, you should find them on here 
That’s cool if you can’t make it, not everyone can. I was just letting you know what’s going on in NC on my side of town. Hope to see you out there sometime though. You just moving here or you just getting into fighters?
Dormmamu = #1 in my entirely biased opinion.
- I’m trying to make a team that revolves around Dorm on point but I don’t know what characters best optimize his potential.
- How does Dorm deal with dive kicks?
- How does Dorm deal with people mashing throw?
I had a long post written up but it’s not even worth it. You just have to realize for some games people pretend they are serious but really aren’t and are only going to half ass everything hoping to make a quick buck off third place at a local tournament near them. I hate using these terms but in reality you’ll only ever have maybe a group of 3-8 “hardcore” players for a game because the majority will always be casuals and that’s not to be mean because it’s up to the people who are “casual” to determine whether they wanna make the next step up and if their life can handle the time needed to do that.
At the least, when looking at the various games in the past years you can pretty much see this trend as far as tournament placings and seriousness with those particular games. You got Mad Tea Party for Blazblue, DeMo for Tekken, Hero of Time for Street Fighter. The types of people that are going to play their game seriously and to the death, they love the games, they aren’t going to pointlessly bitch about characters because while they might not like something in their respective games instead of whining they would rather figure out how to crush those characters in some way. It’s easy to find people who are just screwing around but people who are actually serious and dedicated that’s rare.
lol
Anything going on in charlotte?