She is top tier, not god tier. God tier in this game is phoenix and wolverine. There are a number of top tiers, and although a zero or wesker is not nearly as scary and have nothing on wolverine or phoenix they are still very good characters. Viper has all the tools to be top tier, you just need to work harder to get access to these tools and use them effectively. Wolverine and phoenix are easy mode compared to the rest of the cast. There are plenty of characters that take work to be good at (dante/zero) but once you put in the work they reach their potential.
What does she have that other characters don’t that gives her a significant advantage over people?
Only character in the game with focus attack, very useful for starting combos. She can start a touch of death combo from BEING HIT.
What does she have that puts the fear of God into people once she activates X-Factor?
Infinites. Can chase you down in the air or on the ground and a very scary projectile game (seismo)
What does she have that lets control the screen by herself?
First of all, you don’t need to control the screen by yourself to be top tier. Wolverine isn’t 1/10th as scary without a good assist to help him on his approach. With that said, Sesimo is crazy effective, burning kick is crazy effective. I’d rather fight a good wolverine 1 v 1 then a good viper 1 v 1.
What does she have that lets her take the control of the match when she’s at a disadvantageous situation?
The focus attack that I already mentioned. Pressure is on, she is able to turn it into a full combo. Oh and an invincible hyper never hurt anyone
What does she have that lets her negate runaway and zoning?
*You don’t need to be able to negate runaway and zoning to be top tier, this is a game of teams and assists. If someone is running away and zoning then I’m tagging to a character that has a beam hyper or a very good projectile game. But viper has some of the best ground and air control in the game.
EDIT: I almost forgot. Viper has unblockable setups on character entry.
*
Viper is really good. Don’t think that the 5 or so months the game has been out is nearly enough time to flesh her out. People are lazy, and with execution requirements like that, she may never be fleshed out.
If you look at Marlinpie’s team, Viper/Magneto/Ammy, he has a setup where as soon as he kills Phoenix he goes into team hyper combo before DP comes out. XFactors with Viper out, now DP is left blocking Magneto and Ammy’s hyper while he gets a free focus attack on her with Viper.
If doesn’t have Viper, he can do the same thing with just Magneto/Ammy. Instead of the unblockable, he can just do tridash mixups.
Characters like Tron and Felicia have infinites too in X-Factor. X-factor infinites aren’t good enough to make a top tier character.
One of the things that seperate Top/God tiers characters from the low is how well they work with X-Factor as an Anchor (comeback potential). If 99% of your character’s potential is negated by holding up-back during X-Factor, then that means they’re not good at X-Factor.
See above, you don’t HAVE to, but important part of being top-tier is your ability as anchor and with X-Factor in case shit goes bad. Anybody can be effective with the right assists. That doesn’t determine top tier. The BEST characters don’t need assists to comeback.
Lots of characters have invincible hypers. Blah blah not unique see above.
I don’t think Viper’s most disadvantageous situation is “when the pressure is on”, it’s when the pressure is off. As in keepaway. If she’s up 1-on-1 against Mags spamming Disruptor across the screen or Wesker shooting gunshots in the air at her, what good is her focus going to do?
Nononono. C.Viper can do her infinite on any character WITHOUT XFactor. Hulk’s Fierce is punishable on block, you can’t block Viper’s Focus Attack.
And C.Viper fucking controls the entire screen with her seismo cancels. You can’t even call a projectile assist on her from full screen because she can blow that up.
She has everything you need to be top 10 in the game. But why would i want to use her, when I can just use Wolverine/Akuma?
I haven’t heard of this so-called infinite. But in a game where Wolverine can dive-kick, get a cup of coffee, and then mash buttons with his face and kill somebody…yada yada infinite =/= top tier.
Hulk’s Fierce is also kara-cancellable into safe moves but blah blah.
And how much start-up on the Focus Attack until it’s unblockable?
Keep in mind, SF4 is not Marvel. Characters have mobility.
Controlling the ground =/= controlling the screen
Show one video where a GOOD player is kept out consistently by Viper smacking the ground like a retard on its own.
Again I’m not saying Viper is bad, but the impetus is on results to convince people Viper is Top 10, not theory fighter.
It’s not even about Wolverine/Phoenix. What does she bring that even brings her on the level of Dante/Mags/Wesker?
I know someone is also going to carp on me for stressing on-point in a team game with assists, but look at how many times somebody made a comeback on the EVO stream with a single character.
How many times did Combofiend come back 1-against-3 with Spencer?
The reason top tiers in this game have to be good on point is solely because of X-Factor.
If X-Factor was not in the game, then yes, on-point performance wouldn’t matter as much and it would be more about how the character works with assists.
Look at MvC2, no x-factor in that game, and as a result the game is very much a “slippery slope” and comebacks once a character is down 2-to-1 or 3-to-1 were exceedingly rare. Justin Wong’s Cyclops comeback was so hyped because of that. That was something that only happened once in a decade on the big screen.
In MvC3, that kind of shit happens at least once per SET.
In MvC2, all other things equal (life, meter, player skill) a mid-tier character + a good assist versus a god-tier character by themselves would be nearly 9-1.
In MvC3, if the alone character had X-Factor all they need is one mistake and they can kill both characters in seconds.
XF3 comebacks are dumb but people get ran through by point character kills into mixups just as much. Ive won countless matches with just Zero doing all the work and x factor never being an issue. X factor in marvel is actually somewhat of a good thing, but I think they implemented it wrong. It’s there to prevent the “well shit I lost my point character, guess I better quit” position you could get put it, but with the freedom you can use it in and the lack of limitations on it… it ends up being more than it should.
I’m just going to chalk this up to difference of opinion. It’s hard to get points across on message boards, id rather just discuss viper next time we see eachother. But seriously, hulk does not have a focus. You can’t compare super armor / hyper armor to focus.
Yeah, just PM me the address so that the next time I can at least know how to get there. I’ll try to post up more on the forums from now on since PMing seems to not be very helpful these days.
Haven’t tried much and to be honest completely overlooked her for her execution. I’m gonna see about practicing with Bryan in Tekken, so I’ll probably start practicing with Viper in MvC3 when I get the chance. I still enjoy Chun Li even though Wolverine not only has easier combos but also more damage output.
Gotta work on some of this stuff including her supposedly infinite without X-Factor. I wonder how long it will take me to get Bryan and Viper down? Only one way to find out I guess.
Viper’s problem is she has shitty normals and doesn’t really have a mixup game at least not the one you can use in this game with a left/right mixup along with an assist. That and some of her most effective special moves require 1 meter. That at least changes in UMvC3 and I hear she has an Optic Blast now so that gives her an outright projectile to use so that may help.
Shouts out to Ninja Boi and Raf, Nice Session today!! The more casuals we get in the week the better!!
SAL-T THURSDAYS ARE A GO THIS WEEK AS USUAL. AE,MVC3,3S,STF 2 ANNIVERSARY EDITION,A2/A3,GGXXAC,BB CS2,MB AA. GAMES WILL START AROUND 5PM. EVO IS OVER, BUT THE FIGHT GOES ON!!! COME OUT AND SHOW SOME LOCAL LOVE. AS ALWAYS EXTRA CHAIRS AND SET UPS ARE APPRICIATED. HOPE TO SEE YALL HERE. 2203 MORGANTON RD APT#6 FAYETTEVILLE, NC
I should change my name to Houdini, as much as I disappear and reappear (not that any of you care that much, except the ones who enjoy my candy).
I got transferred to our facility in Denmark for 3 months. I’ve been trying to keep up my skills but the internet is SO horrible in my apartment that I just don’t even try anymore, and training rooms get so tiresome when you don’t get any real battle experience.
Anyways, I’ll be back by the end of this month and definitely will be looking to get destroyed again. Hope to see you guys soon.
Viper might be high, but she’s not top. Even assuming Wolverine/Phoenix are god tier, and Dante/Wesker/Mags are top tier. I don’t know enough about her to say that she’s any lower, but I know enough about who else is in top and about her to say she can’t really be higher.
Well I can confirm his specials are slightly faster and you can do everything in the air now. Flame carpet > Jam session still works so it’s not that big of a nerf really, long as you have an assist hitting them right when flame carpet hits, it’s a non-factor. I wanted to check and see if his M normals got their hitboxes fixed but I didn’t have a chance what with all the stick players using their main teams and doing kill combos = /
But yeah overall I think he’ll be a better character, he’s much more capable of runaway now since he can attack you anywhere on the screen from the top corner. Plus dark spell in the air is pretty cool, you can just fly around charging and when you use liberation he teleports to the ground to let it loose… could create some pretty interesting tactics.
I pretty much agree with this. I’ve seen she does have 100% combos and her EX moves are really stupid (EX Seismo is safe on block, invincible, and puts you in a mixup), seismo zoning is really nice, but it’s all a lot of execution heavy stuff and her buttons are weak sauce, really all she has going for her is seismo and EX moves. Granted those are all really good and probably all she actually needs, but with low health and no good answer to people in the air without an assist, I don’t think she’s top.
But yeah all of her EX moves are obscene. She’s a serious threat on the ground. Dacidbro was telling me she can charge her focus to beat berserker slash, then cancel it into seismo when she feels safe to punish, so that is one thing she might add to the current meta which people aren’t really using atm.
This sounds good, I’m anxious to see how his final build comes out. I think I’ll be running him on point in ultimate for my wesker/dorm/iron man team. Especially if Wesker truly is slower.
Well I wouldn’t count out all the new characters either. Ghost Rider is looking to suit dormammu perfectly since they both have the same gameplan. Eat chain!
Also no responses on saturday other than sofa king? I miss the comp at evo already lol