I always felt that tier lists should be solely determined based on match-ups. It’s hard to factor things in based on ease of use, or whether or not the player is perfect, but we can in general come to terms with what are good, fair, and bad match-ups. Obviously the characters with the better overall match-ups end up higher on the tier list. That’s why I prefer tier lists to be placed on match-up charts.
Also on a somewhat unrelated topic I prefer SFIV over SFIII. People who started taking SF seriously with SFIII seem less inclined to like SFIV than people who started taking SF seriously with SFII or SFA. SFIII quite honestly never truly felt like a SF game to me, that’s neither a bad or a good thing, it was just different. Every SF series has been vastly different from one another, and I’m happy that SFIV decided not to be like any previous SF game and find it’s own niche. Parrying is what made SFIII unique so I would hate to see it in SFIV, but honestly would you really want parrying to be in SFIV? The pacing of the game is way different and parrying wouldn’t mesh well.
:xeye: Uh, what lag? You had 4 bars and everything felt fine. I don’t see why your getting upset and calling me out, especially over something as trite as taunting which shouldn’t bother anyone. If taunting bothers you that much, I’d suggest watching [media=youtube]vfs0wz8nEPU]this[/u[/media] because it really isn’t something you should be getting all bent out of shape over.
As for spamming cr.mp->rolling, you must have been too caught up in your spamming to pay attention to everything else I was doing. With Ken all you did was the same old Jab spam at close range ending it with d.mk->fireball or constantly using F.Mk->d.mk->fireball, just like every other Ken I play against. I didn’t see you do much else. As for Viper, all you did was constantly run away and when I would get close to you, you’d just do c.mp->mp thunder knuckle, repeat. If that’s the depth of your game play then you might as well just quit now because you’re going to continue to lose to casual players like me as you did today.
I don’t use Vega because he’s low tier, I use him because Chun li & Vega are the only characters from SF2 I find entertaining to play as. Cammy & Fei Long are ok too but the rest of the SF2 cast is just flat out bland to me. The reason I wasn’t using Chun, Rose, Sakura, Dan, Gen, Fei or Cammy is because I’ve simply been practicing Vega today… dood.
shrug there was lag on my end. I won’t debate it too much, only to say that when I can’t rely on my links or being able to react with MP SRK as anti-air, it affects my gameplay severely.
In any case, you are missing my point. I don’t care about taunts in an of themselves. The whole “I’m just going to stop playing in the middle of the match” is what bothers me. And to say I was caught up in my own spamming? Tell me what amazing things Ken is able to do that I wasn’t doing. I won’t insult your gameplay. I don’t care about losing to you; I halfway expect to because I have an expectation that you’re a skilled player. But that’s pretty much ruined when you refuse to play seriously just because I’m being defensive. The whole spam thing with Vega has nothing to do with your skill level, it’s just that there’s really not much else Vega can do on offense, which is again, part of why I chose to play defensively.
I just really don’t get your attitude. It’s not okay for me to turtle, but it’s okay for you to sit back and attempt to counter my approach after hitting me a little bit? What’s the difference?
Damn, I wish I played you when I actually knew the match-up, my Boxer straight up eats Blanka’s now.
EDIT:
Also my game isn’t improving fast enough for my liking. The combination of lag, 360 controller, and generally shitty players online isn’t helping me increase my skill level. In all honesty it’s making me develop bad habits, need to start playing live competition.
I feel the same way. It seems I spend like 90% of the time crouching and throwing out jabs.
But I gotta disagree on the fun factor. I love the hell outta this game, despite having no one to play against so I can get better and learn the ins and outs. :\
Hmmm ease of use doesn’t just apply to “hey this combo is easy” imo. Ease of use is having a catch all solution to many situations, easy high damage hit confirms, and basically just not having to do lots of situational shit. Look at sagat. s.HK covers like…20 different yomi layers. Oh you were gonna jump? You got hit. Oh you wanted to approach at mid range, you got hit. Oh so you did jump? Lemme anti air you with this from 40 feet away. Oh you’re zangeif? Lemme press this button.
Lots of other characters would have to rely on different tools for those different situations, but having that one solution to many problems makes thinking your way out of the problem much easier. IMO, the more you have to think during a match, the more you’re hurting yourself. It’s better to KNOW what you need to do and not have to doubt yourself.
Karas was the same way in TvC. One catch all solution to many situations and huge damage for little effort. Or look at Eddie in GG. While he might not have a catch all move, once you’re on the offense, little eddie removes a lot of doubt from your mind. You know they’re blocking and have to react to the mix up, there are very few factors to consider. And then when you do hit them well…it’s over.
Low tier characters seem to be the kind that get stuck in situations where you have to guess right a lot and don’t do much damage, meaning you have to make the match go on longer and guess more overall than other better characters. Often times low tier characters do have answers to things but they’re so situational and hard to apply that you’re not always able to use whatever that may be. For instance, look at Rose. Sure, she can win, but you get in a bad situation, you better out guess them every single time.
And in the end, fighting games are a lot of guessing. It’s best to avoid that shit all together and play someone where you don’t have to end up in those situations as often. Remove the random factor and thats where skill comes into play.
Quite honestly that’s no different than other SF games. Look at Chun in 3S, I’ve literally seen Evo matches where they walked back and forth spamming c.MK until they could hit confirm it into super. Top tier characters in a lot of games generally had a simple answer to a lot of things that lower tier characters couldn’t deal with. This situation is by no means special in SFIV.
You guys calling this “jab fighter” might want to real-evaluate some things…and we’re still talking about tiers in a negative debate about a game we’ve had for two months?
Shitty response: play a different character. Good response: stop worrying so much about “tiers” and losing the fight before hand. Better response: the game is TWO MONTHS OLD with a lot of the characters that people consider poor. Yeah, okay, evaluating them on options+damage+stamina is good, but true matchups aren’t going to be fully realized in two months of play.
Admittedly, I’m playing Sagat, but it seems that a lot of people on here are simply accepting getting beat by certain things because OH GOD THATS A TOP TIER rather than trying to develop creative ways to deal with what’s going on.
Uhh focus is universal to all characters…
If one player holds down back, then they will completely dictate some of their match ups. This is where the mind game opens. If you’re eating crouching jab combos over and over, then it’s probably due to online, or either you’re saying “fuck it thats how this game is” and not even presenting that situation to the opponent again and attempting to beat it. Playing Kris online for example, he started to do much better when he turtled with Bison against me, and he crumpled my offense. I turtled back against him, chipped a little life away, and then he was forced to move due to the clock. The next match or so I felt I had him frustrated because I won with the strategy he was applying, so I started the offense back again and it was working again.
The mind games are there you just have to look at it differently than parry high/low or throw.
Jon: concerning Sagat st.rh, what about punishing the st. rh when it whiffs? If you do this consistently, do you think Sagat will continue to spam st. rh (aside from the Zangeif match :lol:)? This is exactly what I was talking about above.
I agree, the game has balance issues. However, those issues are much worse in every other SF game ever made, with the possible exception of CVS2. If you want a balanced game, then play GG. You want balance AND ease of use? Play Karate Champ.
Why are people saying SFIV is so unbalanced? Sure Sagat is the top character right now, but honestly how many of them do you see winning big tournaments? Even though Sagat has advantages over half the cast you still see him lose to those characters in tournaments regularly. Other SF games have been just as unbalanced, y’all are making a big deal out of nothing and over exaggerating the situation.
For a second I thought everyone was talking about MB since the term “Jab Fighter” came up. So far with playing SF4 online and offline I’ve yet to see people just hold down back and just crank DAT JAB BUTTAN. I’ve seen worse lvl.0 tactics online…Wake up Ultra?
I don’t know why all the tier talk came up and yes…I know it’s been talked about to death(not just in here but in general), but as much people claim they want a more balanced game with closer tiers…they don’t. If they did Marvel would’ve long been dead, 3S would’ve been dead, and to repeat Matt…Play Guilty Gear. BUT WAIT!! It’s "animu filled with lolis " so scratch that. Anyways, no matter what you do to the game to make it more balance (assuming it wasn’t in the first place), people will ALWAYS bitch about something and it’s usually the smallest thing that’ll turn someone off regardless how “balanced” the game is.
Oh yeah, as far as all the commentary on SF4…we’ve been playing the game for two months. End of story. Some of the judgement calls people are making on this game sound really ridiculous. Play more.
