Friday is the 13th (hell yes to the new movie!!!) and Saturday is Valentine’s day…so no go for me. Gotta keep the white women enticed with my hot chocolatey-ness. If nothing is happening Sunday I may be able to bring SF4 out for play.
Im getting REALLY pissed b/c my money is floating around somewhere and my supplier isnt telling me a damned thing. She wont even answer her business phone. I hate to have to eat those copies for breakfast. Im pretty sure even if late I can still move them though. I apologize for any inconvenience this is causing.
And on top of that im WORKING my consecutive double 12 into 24 shift so im in psuedo-ninja mode again.
Why couldnt things just work perfectly like they did in my head? My package was already supposed to be here, I was supposed to go snag it all on my off days, I was supposed to make deliveries and we were all supposed to be playing by now. I feel like a prick now.
SUPER patient Gief overcomes a Claw player in a 3/5 set. I don’t know why he “counter-picked” Bison for one match, though.
The Claw wasn’t even aggressive at all until the last round of the 2nd game.
Tight execution + patience to get in that one SPD needed to change the match + winning the poke war by trading damage in Gief’s favor = Classic SF.
And this was back when Claw was UNQUESTIONABLY top-tier, and before the easy-mode controls and all the buffs Gief got (TURBO LARIAT :wow:),
Unwinnable match-up it is not.
So how does fei overcome claw? That shit seems terrible too. Shit…I’d rather fight Honda, I can actually beat the ones online. Granted…they are online hondas. BUT I CAN BEAT THEM.
Actually there’s not a whole lot of good comp online now, I needa start playing you guys or something. Winning 10 games straight with Fei Long is like wtf he’s not bottom tier come oooooooooooooonnnnn.
edit: Ok got raped by a beast ass cammy tonight. What moves of hers can you punish / how do you beat hulligan throw?
OK, in a best of 10, Dudley loses what, 4-6 to Chun and 3.5-6.5 to Yun? Or is it some other number?
What I’m saying is this:
Can you honestly say that Dudley has a matchup against some other character, that he does better in that matchup then Yun or Chun?
In HDR, take Cammy. She does great against Sim and Boxer, whereas some other chars lose to Sim and Boxer. You run into a guy who mains those two characters- Cammy becomes a hella good choice, despite being bottom tier.
Saying any char can beat the other is like saying Cammy can beat Honda in HDR. Yeah, she can, but we all know it’s a ridiculously uphill struggle, and you’re better off using someone else. The matchup isn’t autolose in HDR.
First off, Dudley v Chun is even 5-5, according to the majority of players (Japanese included). It’s kinda bad vs. Yun, tho.
2nd, the Claw in the vid Shiki posted was not patient at all, spamming slides entirely too often, which eventually got him killed. That fight is, at best, 8-2 in Claw’s favor. Gief has to guess to win, which is possible, but unlikely.
3rd, Gief did NOT get turbo lariat; it’s only low invulnerable for the first rotation, which makes it damn near useless against Claw slide. Once again, it’s a guessing maneuver, as opposed to the godlike power in the HF version. If you don’t think the extra rotation makes a difference, then you don’t play Gief.
Finally, the big problem with ST is that you CANNOT take one character and beat every other. You have matches that, provided the opponent is competent, you CANNOT win without counterpicking, making the original advantage the one that’s going to win out in every tournament format. I don’t like 3S at all, but it is a more balanced game than ST provided you’re playing one of the top 10-12 or so characters; If you’re winning Hugo v Chun or something like that, then either you’re really good, the Chun is garbage, or both.
You want to talk about balance? GG is balance. Every single matchup is winnable, no questions asked. /you saw this coming
I’d rather have every char have some use, then some chars have no use. It is possible to win those bad matchups without counterpicking. I’ve won with Chun in some of her bad matchups against top tier talents, so it is possible. It’s nowhere near as bad as say, using Sean against anyone in 3S.
Again, you view having to learn multiple chars in ST as a bad thing, I don’t. I view it as like tennis.
BTW 5-5 isn’t good enough to disprove my point, why not just use Chun instead, which is 5-5? (Assuming a PURE play-to-win mentality without character preference, which is what most world-class players will have)
HDR they gave Gief a specific anti-Claw buff, which I think makes the matchup a little better.
I personally dislike counterpicking. You should not be REQUIRED to learn multiple characters. It’s a bonus to be able to play with several different characters, but that’s all it should be.
Yeah: GG/VF balance (I’ll be diplomatic here) is optimal, and superior to both HDR and 3s balance. I agree with Blake there. That’s not my point though.
HDR balance is superior to 3S balance. In HDR every char has a reason to be learned. 3S some chars there are no reasons to bother with them at all.
It’s wide agreement Cammy and Fei Long are the two worst chars. Yet, say against a person who mains Sim and uses Boxer as a backup, they’re good choices. (unsure what the Fei/Boxer matchup actually is, as I use neither that much- but I’m pretty sure it isn’t rape either way- and Cammy does beat Boxer.)
I’d rather have counterpicking then 1 or 2 dominant characters, and several crap characters.
Well to be fair, you have to look at the nature of 3S as a game and the mentality necessary to play it and enjoy it. The game is set up such that theoretically, you can win any matchup as long as you out-think your opponent, thanks to parrying. This doesn’t make the game any different from other games as far as matchups go. Difficult matchups are handled the same way in other games; you must be better and smarter than your opponent to win when the matchup is not in your favor. However, since most 3S players are already wrapped up in the idea of constantly reading their opponent and trying to outsmart them, having to do so with a weaker character is not really that big of a deal to them in comparison; they just have to work harder at it. 3S is a rather unique game in this way.
There are also generational gaps to consider. Back in the day, you HAD to deal with bad matchups and counterpicking, because there was no alternative. Thus the players who grew up loving the older games will obviously have less problems with the idea of counterpicking.
Honestly, I think we both got points, and there is a generational gap between OG and middle school players (the new “new school” is coming with SF4). So I think we’re probably 95% in agreement here.
I do think older players struggle with games like 3S, and newer players struggle with games like ST- in general (with exceptions- both locally and otherwise) due to the mentalities involved and flaws of each game. Also, back in the day, the overall skill level was lower, so people learned to fight with what they had- and learned how to play when outmatched. I’m not a believer in magical OG powers- except when there is an experience difference.
BTW what you described isn’t unique to 3S to me at all. VF is the same way, with better balance. VF is just alien though, and has its own flaws.
Considering unemployment + financial aid problems really fail :sad:, I need a little help with something if anyone is available next week: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=175344 (second post)
