He was insinuating that 3C and 6B hits are situational while 6C hits on a grounded opponent hits are safe and common. He compared unlike attacks and said “instead of doing that situational thing, do this situational thing instead”. It was a base comparison. The only way you’re hitting 6Cs on a grounded opponent is if they weren’t blocking. All that is mute anyways, because why you’d compare 6C to 6B/3C is beyond me.
As far as your comments on 3C outside of combos: Once you have 50% meter, you should definitely think about using the occasional 3C. The damage you can get off it on some characters is more than worth the 50% meter you may or may not have to spend. As Noel, you’re probably ending a ton of block strings with 2C. It doesn’t take long before a player associates 2C with the end of the block string (provided they didn’t know that already). 3C gattlings off 2C. If they try anything after the 2C, they’ll get CH by the 3C. If they are wary of your 3C when you have 50% meter, you can dash in after 2C. There is also the fact that 3C goes under quite a few moves.
A mixup option doesn’t stop being a mixup option just because you need 50% meter to cover yourself.
The point of comparing them is that 6b and 3c are slow and easily punishable, while 6c is extremely easy to land or counterhit with. I’m not saying you should abhor the former two and only fish for an opening with 6c, but you now have a way to go into a meterless full combo if you do land it instead of ending it with 2c right there. For a character whose combo starters are almost all slow, high risk high reward moves, i would think an additional safe option such as this would be significant.
Imagine your original post was just on what you can land off a 66C. Right after you post about what you can land, someone comes in and posts how 6C is hard to hit confirm* and that you should just do 5A, 5A, 6A, 6C, drive combo instead. That’s basically what you did.
So yes, 6B is a slow overhead. Yes 3C is slow and punishable. I imagine everyone posting here is aware of that. Telling us that there are safer options is like saying the sky the blue.
*since 6C is only jump cancelable on hit, it’s really not that bad to hit confirm, but certainly harder than 5A x 2. It also wiffs on anyone crouching, so that adds another layer of difficulty (ie if they crouched last second right before the 6C hit).
You do have a pretty long window before the second hit of 6c, so if they do get hit while crouching it’s basically a free 2c 3c followup for you. It is true that if they weren’t blocking in the first place, you could have gone into a bnb off 5a 6a, that’s fine. All i’m saying is that you now gain an additional option to extend your damage potential significantly off a 6c hit on a grounded opponent, if you do land one for whatever reason. Something which currently most people think is limited to a followup 2c (without meter), anything beyond which is not guaranteed.
These all seem to be good tactics, It’s really hard to remember all of this when you’re in the middle of the match. My way of doing things seems to work. gets out his piece of paper
2A - 2B - 5b - 5c - 2C - 123D123D. That’s the basic combo I use against any sort of standing opponents. I got it from the web, it works good if you practice the combo and get it down without a problem.
There are a few others that I use such as BNB Chain revolver combo’s. They are long lists and wouldn’t want to bore anyone with such things that they probably already know.
Mix ups going into BnB combos work the best for me. concerning your combo there, when you start getting matched up with opponents who have fought decent noels they will know how to block those initial hits. Therefore i usually can never fully land a 2A>2B>5B>5C so i dont even try, they block in the midst of it and i get punished :[
FYI, Noel’s 2A sucks. It’s only redeemable factor is it’s range, but even that isn’t enough to warrant it as a good normal. If you want to combo into super for nice easy damage:
66C > 2C > 236236D
Easiest hit confirm into super ever and does nice damage as well as makes her ground super connect fully. It can also be done from j.C (depending on how low to the ground your j.C is).
Yeah it’s a pity about this. However, against Tager, and only Tager, you can followup the 5C (pretty much has to be point blank though) with j9.A > j.B > j.C > j.D
Even from a far 5C (say after 2B 5B 5C pushes you away) you can j9.A > j.C > j.D > 28D > 6C > j.C > j.236C. Seems like a lot of work to me and it only works on Tager, but hey it’s another 1000 damage or so if you ever find yourself in that situation.
why are people using 2A, when you 5A does the same thing plus more bonuses like being able to chain into everything. advantage on block and leads to her basic knockdown combos/ and mixups… there really isn’t a reason to use 2A… because 5a hits crouchers anyways…
Anyone notice that when its Noel vs Noel, whoever use more 2D mix up win the game?
Noel has the hardest time when dealing with 2D.
I was playing with another level 52 Noel online with 60% play rate, at the end we were both spamming 2D more than any other moves. Of course we don’t simple spam it, we mix it up and put it in different part of combo so it become unpredictable.
I know 6a, 5d or even 5a can counter 2D, but 6a come out too slow that you have to execute the move before 2d come out, 5a works once in a while depend on range, 5d works but there are very limited combo after it counter 2D.
Yep, 'tis true. Also, the only time I ever end up drive-spamming is when I’m in a mirror match. Other than that I can go whole rounds without using drives.
i need help with the 22C loop, its driving me crazy.
3C>22C>66C>i miss this 22C everytime… IT WONT HIT!
someone save me please!
edit:
3C>22C>66C>22C>6C>22C>_________
okay i cant land this 66C now!
edit2:
okay sorry folks for the frequent edits in the past hour.
problem now is.
3C>22C>66C>22C>6C>22C>66C>_______
cant get that 22C there to hit, they are bouncing way to high
will appreciate any pointers and help from anyone ^-^
I only know the way to do this on Tager and Hakumen.
Delay the 22C after the first 6C as much as possible, almost to the point where she’s actually about to fire the 2nd part of 6C.
From then on, you want to time the 22C to hit the ideally hit the back of the head, and be able to connect with 6C while they’re bouncing up before they fly too high.
If midscreen, you’ll have to instant dash after the 1st and 3rd hit of 22C.
5D leads to very limited combo? You kidding me, throw a 6C, 214 A, air combo more than 1/4th of their health.
Also, her 2D is one of the slowest overheads in the game, very easy to block. And blocking high is almost never wrong when going against Noel, due to the simple fact that she can’t do shit against you if you aren’t hit in a crouching state.
You’ll get eaten alive blocking high against Noel, because she only has a few ground overheads with far more attacks that hit low. She’s got one of the best mixup games out of all the characters, and blocking high against one of her many blockstrings will have you eating a 22C loop in less than a second.
Unless you’re planning on spending 50% meter or risk eating a CH into deathcombo for a low mixup. I don’t know about those above statements good sir.
Noel’s mixup game doesn’t come off of high/low, as she has the weakest high/low game out of the entire cast. Most of her mixup comes off of frame trapping and stupid gimmicks.
In the end though blocking high without consideration is a pretty bad idea, it’s still better to react to Noel overheads despite the fact that 6B is one of the faster overheads in the game.
2B - This is her primary low option. Despite the extremely harsh 60% proration, it’s 7f on startup and leads into 6c/5b -> 2c -> Super/RC Run up 5a -> 6a -> 6c drive combo.
2C - Yes it does hit low, but on standing this leads to nothing without meter. Combined with the 14f startup and low priority you’re better off not using this as your low option. 2C is primarily used to frame trap for CH or to end blockstrings due to +1 on block. Although if you’re frame trapping you’re better off using 5C.
3C - Very obvious low, and very punishable either on startup or block.She’s in CH and crouching for the entire duration of the move. Used mainly to get under stuff when 5D won’t cut it and 6D is too slow. Not a good idea to use this as a mixup.
214a - The extremely gimmicky high reward “low”. Incredibly punishable on startup or whiff but leads into big damage.
So the conclusion is that yes she does have options off of lows, but they are either extremely gimmicky or require meter to make any kind of decent damage happen.
25F standing overhead is pretty fast for this game. The real mixup off of that is to make people scared of stagger 5a string so you’d have a chance to throw it out. Along with other stupid gimmicks.