I hate it, and yeah I think it’s pretty stupid, but it seems it’s been deemed ‘punishable’ and is therefore ok. (kind of like how most players will bash bursts as a scrub tactic, despite the fact that in most games, in order to use a burst, you have to use up super bar that you earned.) I also understand that in a game like MVC3 it’s possible to create near-airtight block strings thanks to the assists, so in a way AG is necessary. One thing that did really make me happy is that they decided to make it not effect assists.
I think it just comes down to what’s more convenient for your typical hardcore high-end player. Opponents breaking out of my combos? Booo! Opponents keeping me on my toes because they get an ultra when they’re low on health after I should be having a comfortable win? Boooo! A push guard that lets me escape block pressure so I don’t have to deal with it? Eh that’s alright."
I’m going to guess that people like winning and they don’t like things that thwart an offense they feel they worked hard to throw down. But if you’re in blockstun, you aren’t mounting an offense yet, so a pushblock won’t be seen as being quite as obnoxious as a combo breaker.
I don’t know, I love blockstrings though, so I am a little biassed.
exactly. AG doesnt do any damage and barely waters down mvc3 offense. at high level play AG isnt even used THAT much and easily gotten around by dashing/triangle jump/box jump. easy mode reversals in sf4 are WAY bigger of a problem. but meh.
if amvc didnt have AG it would be the dumbest game on the planet… as it is AG is kind of weak (like it should be) cause it doesnt work against assists and can be dashed through… ag is one of the best mechanics that marvel brings to th table imho.
my only problem with it is it seems to have a little TOO LONG of an activation window. but thats small beans when one bad AG means you take 75% damage whereas if your AG had worked it does NO damage.
Dunno, without pushblock whats the point of playing when your against Viper, Ammy, or X-23, or even Tron Bonne, its really just a matter of time until you mess up, or they chip your to death. Think about Forward C spam with assists and no pushblock? Does that sound like fun?
Arthur would be useless, and Sent and Dorm would get destroyed by pretty much everything that got in on them.
Pushblock is less a crutch, more like a way to keep the opponent honest, especially. If you pushblock something like Skrull’s tenderizer, then free chip becomes a decision when you want to jump in there and punish. Trish’s round harvest is made harmless, and most characters can use the extra meter you build from pushing them away.
It’s practical for nearly every character in the game, and its a good way to keep this game from being too retardedly rushdown friendly. Intelligent rushdown is legit, as well as on the opposite side of the spectrum with keepaway, but if its really just the same ABCS and maybe a jumpin Wesker style then its not really worth the effort.
Though they need to work harder on making him punishable when they nerf him…
It’s funny because I have the opposite opinion. I could never get why some games are slanted so heavily towards defense (ie. SSF4) or offense (ie. MVC3). I prefer games where offense and defense are both strong (ie. SF3S). Of course, I still think MVC3 is very fun to play. I like fighting games in general enough that I’ll pretty much play anything that doesn’t use a block button. I was actually ready to make an exception for MK9 but I decided not to get it at the last moment because of the online code shenanigans.
As for being noob friendly, I actually think that push-blocking is quite skill-testing. I remember when I first started playing I would always get destroyed because I kept forgetting to push-block. Now I have the opposite problem and I keep missing punish opportunities because I push-block everything instinctively.
The thing that I think is really noob-friendly is the DHC glitch. It almost eliminates the life advantage on characters like Thor or She Hulk because anyone can die to one DHC-glitched combo. I’m wouldn’t mind seeing that fixed in a patch, especially if it means I’ll be seeing fewer Storm/Sent/Wolvie teams online.
No you see the problem with this logic is that you talk like AG is good. The pushblock in this game SUCKS. Not only it really easy to bait out a cr. M, counter hit, and blow someone up for it, most characters who have moves that take them forward (Zero, Wolvy, Ammy) just straight up negate pushblock. If AG is really bothering you, then you’re just not playing the game right.
I don’t think anyone denies that PB is necessary. I think the problem lies in how extreme the pushback is.
I also think, for the most part, it’s retarded that projectiles can be Push Blocked. At the very least, there should be a distance requirement regarding them.
Well I would say the same thing about projectiles then I thought about what would happen if you couldn’t push block D.Phoenix’s normal projectiles. LOL.
I mean if you’re going to be throwing a projectile its usually to zone and not really set up offense (unless you’re playing like Chris or something) so like when I’m playing Doom and people push block my plasma beams I’m pretty ok with it. I want them away from me so I can get free chip any way until I decide on a strategy to move in. With Wesker I’m usually trying to chip from the air and I doubt if they can push block the gun on reaction and even if they could I doubt there would be much pushback at all. Using Doom’s beam as an assist is awesome too since it just travels the whole screen and isn’t negated by push block which is perfect for X23 and Wesker.
Exactly. When I first saw how far the offensive character got punted across the screen (especially after playing BB) I thought, this is going to turn into an SRK saltfest. Seemingly though I was wrong.
If people can’t handle gets deemed ‘scrub friendly’, then they’re oblivious to the fact that what they’re saying is intrinsically scrubby. Maybe SRK has learnt to stop complaining and start using that stuff to win.
And really, of all things to complain about… AG!? Really? Half the cast has brain dead rushdown and you want to make getting in even more free? The game’s difficulty curve is its speed. You get in, get thrown out and rush back in like a pinball machine with mix ups. Blazblue aint as fast, so obviously its defensive mechanics would be different. Also, Blazblue is bad example, what with it epitomizing dumbing down in comparison to it’s faster older brother GG.
The problem with the GG system is that you can spam push block basically when the only risk is losing meter. In that respect its scrubbier because you don’t even need to hit confirm for a push block as you would in mvc3, you can just hold the buttons down when you think the opponent will attack and if he doesn’t you only lose a little bar. In mvc3\mvc2 and other games with that system, push blocking is basically a hit confirm and a bad push block equals a wiffed poke.
2 different systems, each has its own problems. I’ve said it time and time again, no game has done push blocking properly IMO. I’ve seen like 3 different systems, including vampire savior push block which is a mash push block system, and none of them are 100% solid.
the vampire savior push block fits vampire savior but it wouldn’t work very well in other games. Of all the push block games, vampire savior so far from my experience is by far the deepest. You can push the opponent into 3 different locations, that isn’t possible in any other 2d tournament fighters. You can push them far, mid, close and it changes the way the game is played. Against a character with good range turtle ability, pushing them far gives them the advantage but if you push them close, you’re released from blockstun faster and you’re right in your face. You wouldn’t want to push block a rush down character close in your face if you were a turtle player, you would always push them as far as possible.
and if you think wiffing pokes is bad in mvc3\mvc2 because you have to hit 2 buttons to push, in vampire savior you have to hit 6 buttons in 13 frames to get a 100% push, people are ALWAYS wiffing pokes in that game even after 14 years of tournament play.
It’s a way to deal with the controls not giving you perfect freedom to execute your intention. It has nothing to do with designing the system.
Missing out on key punishment opportunities is reason enough to stop spamming pushblock. Adding execution errors is almost never desirable.
That’s probably why they changed it in blazblue. If you use up your pushblock bar, you take a ton of damage on subsequent hits.
Sure, absolutely. And I totally forgot that if you do it that way, you need a punishment mechanic for using it too much, and that adds unwanted complexity to the engine.
I’m not a vampire savior player, but I’d imagine that whiffing and attack doesn’t make you lose 1/3 of your life or more. In MvC3, it often leads to a dead character.
It did, originally, until people got their hands on the game and found out that keepaway is pretty weak in this game, and that pushblock is momentum based.
Have you ever considered that pushblock being punishable in that fashion is the point?
