The block strings in this game are way better than the ones in SFIV. So I’ll take what I can get.
This guy. It’s one of the many reasons I still think KOF 12 and Blazblue are the BEST fighters this generation. There are enough options to completely make sure the game isn’t broken, infact, the only infinite in KOF 12 is so hard to do that it would make NO sense doing it, even if you have someone assisting you pulling it off.
Hell. In my opinion there aren’t enough defensive options in this game, if it had a breaker type of mechanic found in BB or TvC it would be A LOT more rounded in my opinion. Such as stopping Dante’s absolutely STUPID offense, the fact you can be chained into 88 hits even before he hypers into Million Dollars or a Phoenix onslaught or the many easily pulled off infinites to be found with no real defense says a lot about how they developed this game.
But apparently more defensive options makes fighting games “nub” friendly and the community around it says you should learn to play or shut up.
The push back in MvC3 is way more than MvC2 isn’t it?
I really don’t ‘get’ push block mechanics in fighting games. They seem like an iffy design choice to me, you’ve taken the decision to have really aggressive block strings (as people have mentioned re. MvC2) and then pretty much do a u-turn as if to say, shit, that’s too hard to deal with, we need something to negate that sort of pressure. Makes no sense. You either want sustained pressure and tricky mixups or you don’t. I’m sure most won’t agree but to me, they come across almost as an admission of bad design somewhere along the line. If the game is ‘broken’ without it then something’s not right.
Advance guarding doesn’t really do much to negate pressure in high level fights. Good players know how to cover themselves from obvious pushblocking. At high level play there’s like a few situations where it’s necessary or you would get rushed to death but a lot of the time advance gaurding gets you in more trouble (like advance guarding an air normal from Sent then he dashes in and traps you with command grab). Advance guarding moves that are punishable on block (which people still do a lot) isn’t smart either.
Especially once you break up your block strings to force them to wave dash accidentally and add in one frame throws…it’s pretty much a non issue. Throws are serious business in this game. They’re like the old games where if you dont know 100 percent a throw is coming you’re going to get thrown to high damage. Often enough you’ll see an air throw teched due to hard attack/throw OS but on the ground people rarely tech throws and it’ll be a while before people work up the reactions to do so reliably.
This is what I hated about BB, lots of really aggressive attacking options with a whole bunch of polar opposite defensive options to lessen/negate the really aggressive attacking options. Makes no sense to me at all.
You used Dante as an example, if his pressure is too extreme, tweak that directly. Adding some game mechanic to make it easier to deal with is odd.
Anyway, getting a little off the point here. I’m not saying it is particularly beginner friendly, just that I expected it to get a little heat from the ‘its all dumbed down brigade’.
I really thought this was a joke thread when I read the subject.
The reason it’s not bashed is because you can get punished for using it in the wrong way and if it wasn’t there, some characters would be able to lock you down indefinitely.
Yeah it’s the difference between like advance guarding in this game and mashing shoryu in SFIV. Has anyone ever won a match advance guarding their way to victory? Probably not. Has anyone mashed in a shoryu on something that wasn’t a jab and won in SFIV? Countless times.
That’s why I loved it, there are so many offensive/defensive options that you can feel prepared for any situation. Some people hate it, I love it.
I used Dante because it literally takes 1 hit from him and a major part of your characters health is diminished with no way to fight back. Hell, Captain America has a shield slash infinite that’s so easy to pull of I wonder if Capcom left it in as troll material. TvC had options to counteract these issues, MVC 3 doesn’t. I expected advancement with MVC 3, in all areas but frankly offense has been tweaked to a degree that things like advance gaurd seem more like helpful suggestions then a way to break out of it.
TvC is more of a true sequel to MVC 2 then MVC 3 is.
I think what Capcom was trying to do was retain the feel of MVC2 as far as the high intensity pressure and situations while making it easier to get into. When I heard they didn’t add a burst/combo breaker mechanic I didn’t find it surprising at all because hardcore Marvel players most likely would not have wanted to see the light of day of a burst mechanic in a sequel. In Marvel when you took combos you just ate them. The difference mainly is in MVC2 if you got put in a long combo like an infinite usually the damage scaling kicked in so hard that it was just better to reset.
In MVC3 though the damage is so high that your characters are more like your lives in a Super Mario game than characters you actually get a chance to really control. Especially when more people start using DHC reset its not really going to matter how much health your character has…they all die on first touch unless the combo is dropped. Which in some ways does retain the hardcore “block good or else” feel of MVC2 but at the same time with the damage being so high even just some random scrub who learns a random Wolverine combo can do like 70 percent to you with one meter and someone that knows DHC reset shit can kill you on first touch start of round. It’s pretty obvious that health doesn’t matter when people are shit scared of a character that has 2 lives and 420k health per life.
With no mechanic to get out of these pretty much near death or complete death situations for your characters the game starts to boil down to dont get hit or lose. Which the issue is that you dont really need to know as much execution or reset wise as in Marvel 2 to put people in Marvel 2 situations.
Either way I dont mind though cuz the game is way more fun to play for me than SFIV and people are playing it so I’ll take it. It’s probably my favorite fighting game that’s come out in the last 10 years and with some tweaks could get really solid. Even if it doesn’t get tweaked much its still hella fun and a game that rewards offense which are the types of games I prefer. It just rewards offense a little too much ATM. Even if they just nerfed the damage a bit on some of the characters that would help a lot. It’s just if they nerf damage too hard then the game will turn into a time out fest so there’s a lot to balance
Imagine fighting Zero with no pushblock. :wasted:
Or Morrigan and her whirling dervish infinite block string without advancing guard, lol.
Or Chris’s “FIRE IN THE HOLE!” ad infinitum.
Imagine trying to play keepaway period without any pushblock at all.
This topic is dumb.
Should be locked soon.
A good fighting game needs a balance of both offense and defense. This is to keep players of both styles honest. There are keep-away characters in this game and they already have no chance. The game’s poison-touch damage and matrix speed aid rushdown to the point that zoning barely exist in the game. without advancing guard, the game would be like a Quarterback without an offensive line.
Christ, some people need to go back and read the original post it seems.
When SFIV came out and people realised there were no true blockstrings and that little Jimmy could interrupt their pressure by furiously rotating the stick and mashing all buttons, there was all hell to pay. People were talking like mashed DP was some sort of godlike, insurmountable defensive option. Advancing Guard takes a lot more thought and consideration to deal with effectively so I’m quite (pleasantly) surprised not to see the same people in fits.
By that logic the marvel 3 section in its entirety should be locked.
Yeah in the end I think people dont make as big of a deal because we already went through the block string gap, long reversal window on wake up fest that was SFIV. Nothing can be worse than that shit defensively. I honestly think it takes a lot more thought and consideration to deal with people mashing on shit in SFIV because it can be your ass if u press shit at the wrong time. The only thing advancing guard does is push you out of an offensive opportunity. It doesn’t give the opponent a free combo opportunity or any damage at all. You do have to know quite a few tricks to effectively bypass advance guard but its just something to learn to get around. Not something that will constantly put you in a state of trouble if you dont know how to get around or forget to get around it.
I don’t get it, AG counters mashers on offense, and gets countered easily when mashed. Also when you realize how potent a single touch in this game is, and how retardedly fast mixups from pixie characters are, its fair that if you’re opponent is making good reads himself, he should be able to reset the situation. Besides, if you can’t crack someone with the opportunity sent drones or akuma tatsu gives, that opponent deserves a cookie at the very least.
Then again, this is just armchair videogame design. I’m sure we can all come up with subjective reasons as to why this mechanic should or shouldn’t exist. I don’t think the game’s pacing has suffered at all though. Mixups aren’t few or far in between in Marvel.