ninja school

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
1

:nunchuck:

I got a better idea for a strider hread. How bout we just post up w\e we want about anything strider related. That way no one is arguing about whats better or worse since its not a debate. It’ll all be directly related to helping strider get better. Questions are of course welcome but don’t expect much since all the strider players kinda hord strider secrets to themselves. Gotta keep somethings to stay original.

I wrote some basic-entry advance stuff in the shoryuken wiki not too long ago so there are some strider things noobies can look into and get started. Its nothing mind blowing. Just some VERY basic things that most s\d players know about already. One day I hope to make a tut video of s\d explaining a lot of things.

some advanced strider things.

orb sequences***

when you throw the rings, you can basically control them @ will. Every time you tap the button you’ll be able too throw rings depending on where the machines are @.

The perfect block stun orb sequence imo is 3 and 7o’clock and between. imo, 4-5 o’clock will work well as well as variations of 6o’clock. Imagine the rings as a clock around strider and thats how you’ll know which rings I’m talking about. You want to teleport as these make contact. Some patterns of strider rings aren’t guaranteed block stun. So if your opponent is drilling the assist button and you teleport @ the wrong patttern, you will get hit. You want to teleport on the proper patterns to get a free pin OR the complete opposite. Use your opponents mashing against him. Use the broken up patterns to let the assist come out and time your teleport so its on that assist as it comes out onto the screen for easy assist punish stuff.

Sometimes when you mash rings, you can get 3 of them to come out per tap. Usually, when you time it out, only till happen per hit but if you mash you can get up to 3-4. Kaising brought up an excellent theory of how that works. I think he said that when the machines are positioned around 12-6 and 3-9 these positions force multiple rings to come out. Again, its just a theory until its proven. I haven’t gotten around to test it.

There is a way to break up orb timing to force a cross up. What you want to do is throw some rings to create a pin. Then you throw some rings that are broken up. What you want to do is create enough of a break up that a telelport will land put you on the opposite side of your opponent, a cross up, before said ring\s make it to the opponent. A very great trick when mastered. You can hit people w\it for quite a while before they figure out whats going on.

walk off time***

In the past I brought this up frequently. Its essential to strider’s trap game because this is how you base what pattern you need to maintain stun.

Walk off time is basically is the amount of time it takes for your machines to walk off the screen once they leave strider. This is based upon screen positioning and certain specials.

I don’t think I’ve mentioned before that certain specials will speed up the walk off time of the machines before. What you do is make sure a special is in animation as orbs ends I think. From what i’ve tested, this works pretty good with air qcf+lp\lk and TK air dp’s. Sometimes the animals and randomness played a factor. You can do basic ground chains sometimes to get a reorb and the machines will walk off @ a different speed. I haven’t quite figured it out yet but I can create some scenarios where I can control the speed.

Its pretty easy to see this by doing air qcf+lp. What you do is make sure the orbs leave strider as he descends down. When you land, watch the speed of the machines as they walk off. Its considerably faster.

IMO, if this is figured out, it will put strider somewhere else. When you can control the walk off speed of the machines, he’ll be able to chain less and work more options.

ok, aside from the walk off speed there a few more things to understand. Whenever I trap someone and I need to retrap, I look @ a few things. First I look @ where I am on the screen. I kinda trained myself to realize how long I need to chain in order to reorb properly. Based on how long it takes before I can reorb determines my chain. I the chain to last x amount of seconds so I can reorb. The next thing I look for is how much time exactly I have left so I can get ready to set it up.

After that, a few things can happen. Say you dash in s.lp+doom, orbs start to walk off, s.mp, and your opponent push blocks strider. Doom is making contact w\ his first rotation, doom has 2 rotations to his AA. When the push block happens in this scenario, it creates a screen shift which lengthens the horizontal screen and makes my retrap longer based upon from where they left me orginally. You have to take this factor into account for a retrap process. A slight trick you can do to force quicker walk off time is create a screen shift with a teleport that will put on the opposite side of the way the machines are walking off. That way if a push block occurs, it will allow you to orb that much faster.

split orbs

I don’t think one player can take credit for this seeing how strider players have been doing it on accident for quite some time. If you teleport, dash under, or jump over your opponent as orbs end, they will walk off in 2 different directions. If you’re not exactly midscreen when this happens, one of the machines will walk off faster than the other naturally. Even though 1 machine is still left on the screen, strider can activate immediately.

Kaising has reported that the way to do this is to teleport in the wordage of striders orbs in the “m” in the time meter. I’m not 100% sure if that it was it so correct me if I’m wrong. The dash under and jump versions that cause the same split aren’t tested yet.

A great trick to put this of someone use is that if you cause a split orb, always try to activate off an animal, cancel super. Say you did the split on accident or felt that you timed it wrong, when you do the super input and you fucked up the trick, you will get a qcf+fp. Which is a horrible move on block because it has shitty recovery. By doing an animal first and cancelling out, you side step this problem naturally. Unless you’re confident in the split setup, I recommend doing it this way.

more tomorrow. I’ll try to keep it lively for the veterans who already know these things.

2

Sometimes if they push block you away when you jump towards them, the orbs will split. I was doing it on yipes two days ago.

3

hmm, I don’t think i’ve ever seen something like that before.

So they just split on the front side because of a push block?

4

Well no. When I jump over, he push blocks and Strider doesn’t turn around nor does the other character because they’re stuck in push block animation. So if they pushblock at that time, I’ve had the orbs split like that the other day.

5

That orb split has happened to me a lot too! Most of the time, it’s when I’m going for a jump hp/ rh on Sentinel with orbs about to end and he pushblocks me, or when I retrap using jump over + call doom and I get pushblocked. But the other day it happened to me like four times when I was playing my friend’s Magneto.

6

Yeah, you know what I’m saying? It’s crazy, but it’s useful. Especially the corner one where you hop off the wall to make them walk off the wrong way, that one is really good.

7

yeah the corner one is awesome. what has happened to me though is that once the other guy catches on to what’s happening, he will pushblock strider as he jumps over to prevent the wall jump from happening. even still, i’ve sometimes managed to get the orbs to split during the hop to the wall and get the re-orb.

8

hey, I thought I made that up? :nunchuck:

how much do you really know?

9

More than I look like I know :wgrin:

10

i’ve been telling people about Strider jump forward for so long SNAKE!!! lol
one of the Strider/Tron tricks I like is during the Sent-ONLY infinite I launch them, dash forward j. forward call tron, throw a j. HP and it’ll be a cross up and you can still combo Sentinel into the inf or orbs

A bit cleaner version

Strider/Tron
Corner on Sentinel
Infinite, land, s. lp, s. lp, c. hp xx dash forward & call tron assist, j. forward w/ HP, re-combo into infinite, air combo, snap, orbs

A small thing KaiSing taught me way back in the day

  • If you’re using Strider and Tron, teleport and jump over the opponent sandwiching the guy in between Tron and Strider. If you can get a c. lk off during this, go straight into orbs for good damage.

After the j. forward and you have the opponent sandwiched and he’s blocking well
I like to c. lk with tiger, tiger into orbs or c. lk w/ tiger, tiger, c. lk, c. HP, c. HK, Sent RP + long bomb into orbs. It’s been a while since I’ve played mvc2 but I think the string works with two tigers. If it doesn’t just do it with one tiger.

During this scenario I like to teleport close to them to keep down and start the overhead + tron!! lol

11

instant overhead explained

I think I have pretty much figured out how and why this works. It should be pretty clear on how the way to combo this jupfwd+lk, tap lp, qcf+lk, mash orbs for those that didn’t know.

ok, imo to get this to juggle properly, you can’t be late on the qcf+lk. You basically have maximize the hit stun time on the ring after jupfwd+lk so the scoot down special can combo properly.

the rings themselves cause slight slide back for block stun. This can be quite a problem with dealing w\ very small characters like mag\storm. You’re going to have to time your overhead sequences according to the slide back. What I do is dash towards the spot where an orb sequence will let my opponent go and attempt my overhead there.

A big PROBLEM to the overhead is that sometimes, auto guard takes place and lets the opponent block easy. What you want to do to avoid this is time your overhead after or before perfect orb sequences and generally, never overhead when doom rocks are making contact. Use your 50\50 when its just strider and his orbs. You can 50\50 with doom but strider doesn’t have an air dash so if you’re timing it randomly, you could fuck yourself up by giving your opponent auto guard and depending where doom is in his rotation of rocks can potentially kill you. If you know where to do it, go for it.

striders slide***

A very underated move IMO. It has a long hit box time thats very useful. This move in particular will go under or stop any AA in the game.

As of now, I know it goes under psy, cable, cyke. Against mando, strider actually takes him out if mando is called where strider is sliding.

I’ve had random experiences with cyke AA. Sometimes he hits me, sometimes he doesn’t as I remember it, it was range dependent but not entirely sure right now.

Even striders slide to hit point characters during orbs can be useful. You can OTG with the rings\machines to get a free pop up but in time, experienced players will learn what it is thats hitting them and evenutally roll it. I use this more in the sense to create random xups. Stole it from snake himself. You can get force corner and random switch sides to happen with this move. Use the magic.

Using this properly can be hella beneficial. What you want to do is use this for when you fuck up trap patterns or create holes on purpose to allow for AA’s. To come out. If you create a gapped trapped pattern, activate, more than likely, your opponent will probably call out their AA. What you do after the activate is slide+rings. If they call any AA out, it should stop that AA easy as well as instantly grab that AA into position for assist damage.

Avoiding alpha counters**
*
The AC, alpha counter, can really hurt strider. There is a vulnerable point where he has no rings and doom is out. There’s no invincibility right there so who wouldn’t try it for a free shot @ the ninja.

For all AA’s that aren’t cyke AA, c.lk, c.fp, c.rh, will slide strider out and away from AA’s leaving them in prime position for assist damage. Against mando, c.fp\c.rh actually beats him out.

if you try this trick against cyke AA, it doesn’t work. He goes to far out as an AA and he’ll pop strider every time. However, that doesn’t mean that something else won’t work. What you want to do is create a sandwhich 50\50 to reactivate against cyke AA. When you create a sandwhich trap, meaning that strider is on one side while doom is on the other, cyke’s alpha counter in has to go towards strider. That means that doom will pop him from behind all day.

screen freeze unblockables***

imo, a high level trick to start hitting people. Any projectile that is in an opponents sprite as strider activates and the opponent isn’t in block animation before it happens, will be unblockable after the super animation is done with.

dog, bird, bombs all can be used with this trick to spring up surprises.

12

Man, people better not sleep on your tron gimmicks Tam, haha
.I go for the overhead randomly in matches, wont hurt to try. I use the slide alot. It’s good. Nice topic, but in my opinion frame-kills are pretty hard since the characters are in blockstun most of the time. It works best when they’re trying to escape trap things and an animal is thrown then ouroboros is activated to frame kill and makes the animal too fast to block by eliminating one of it’s frames. But it’s still very hard to plan out since them holding back or not is pretty random. I wouldn’t be looking for them in a match, but I would consider it if the moment arises.

13

I posted this in the other thread, but anyway:

s. fierce or s. rh or c. rh + tron xx teleport behind.

I do this usually after air combo magic series ending with sj. fierce. Your opponent will be right in front of you when you land, leading to a forced block. Then, as they get up, just do s. fierce + tron xx teleport. Even if they block the s. fierce (which is actually what you want), they will get crossed up between the 2nd and 3rd rings of tron where they have to switch directions. It looks like (and they’ll think) they can just hold to block in the original direction that they first started blocking, but they’ll get hit by the 3rd ring.

This also works after you activate orbs and they start blocking it instead of getting hit. End with s. fierce + tron xx teleport. You can also mess with the timing of hitting tron assist first slightly before s. fierce if you want to mix things up. This also works with c. fierce + tron if they’re actually getting combo’d by the orbs.

14

I don’t trust wake up anything with Strider because it’s so hard to meaty with him sometimes and a random assist comes out to ninja your ass

Stuff like that happens when you air combo & after the flying screen you want to keep hitting the guy… well the assist probably come out and rape you and the doom/tron :frowning:

Mid-screen - Dash back with tiger, bird works well for me with an assist to boot then you re-do your rush.

Corner - Overhead, double jump w/ assist if they like to smash assists.

s. HP w/ assist -> teleport is alright but leaves Strider lacking and forces into orbs

I say a lot of people should pick up not orbing and see how far you can go without it.

One of the reasons why I like Sent RP and Tron rings is that they come in and leave fast.

15

I used to say the same thing but then I figured out something for that. :lovin:

16

strider is almost impossible to trade with on wake up =/

17

doesn’t c. rh beat just about every assist out there, esp when Strider has time advantage like after FS?

They’d have to wait for you, then hit their assist to try to tag you. And that’s what your teleport is for…

18

I’m not saying you can’t do it and you won’t get the meaty. It’s just you have to be real consistent. REAL CONSISTENT. If you don’t get the positioning right, then you’re done

I’m talking about real %'s of where people would land and what not and you’ll not get that hit and YOU GET ASSIST INTO SNAP or something horrible. Not talking about exact spots on the screen.

If you end your combo early, then yeah of course Strider is going to be up close and you’ll be getting that meaty

For example you end your combo a lot later to get some bar in the air then you may eat an assist.

Lets say I go

Strider
anywhere
c. hp xx sj, sj. lk, sj. hp

BAM FAST you’ll be right in the opponent’s face

What if you counter an opponent w/ sj LP or j. forward LP when they’re air dashing into you?

Strider/Tron
Opponent coming down from air
j. forward lp & assist, j. hp, j. hk land orb

nasty damage

Jaded:

when you talk of the teleport, it really depends on what assist is coming out. Sometimes their AA will come out earlier than how fast you press your attacks, in other words…

Yes you may get the AA, but Magneto can still sj LK LK your ass into oblivion.
Or you may get the point character and the AA [Cyclops] forces you to block causing you to lose the offense for a bit. This allows them to super jump and all sorts of wacky shit they can do.

If you’re using Tron vs. Capcom, yeah you may get Capcom if you call Tron ahead and Capcom is coming out then you got some meter and ton of damage on Capcom. Don’t expect this all too often though.

Anyway the point I just want to emphasis is stick to tigers/birds/bombs and you’ll be better off that way from getting owned too hard if you’re not familiar with Strider’s normals or if you don’t know you will get 'em.

teleport away + Sent RP is too much

19

dealing with AA’s that out prioritize doom

cyke, cable, and psy AA’s can be very annoying to deal with. Even if you get the assist advantage during a scenario and a chain sequence isn’t tight enough, strider is left in the position where the opponent can call their AA and probably stuff doom and gain the advantage. This is a real big problem with s\d because he takes horrible damage.

There are a few strategies you can try to help you out.

Gain the life lead. By gaining the life lead, you won’t feel pressured into making stupid assist mistakes. Playing smart here can land 1 or 2 more CH’s for more life.

use sent’s air qcf+pp into the reset bomb assist kill. By far, the best way to nuke AA’s. If someone run’s to cyke AA, I’ll spam my doom a few times to see if they’ll call out cyke AA to stop him which is usually the case. What you want to do is get a few quick licks against cyke with sent\doom. try to get around 30% life. This is a good bit of life but its not enough for your opponent to be extremely terrified to stop calling him. As usual, try to build bar inbetween safely and landing CH’s on the point to force an assist call is always a plus. So anyway, you do 30% to cyke AA with sent\doom. You have 2-3 bars which is enough to actually kill an AA. What you want to do is gain the dominant position and use doom. Your opponent may not fall for this the first time which is ok, they’ll take 10-15% chip and I guarantee you that around the 2nd or 3rd time they will eventually call their cyke AA. By gaining that dominant position and using doom, you will force out cyke eventually. What you want to do is get in a spot where a cyke will counter doom then air qcf+pp with sent in the air, then dhc orbs into strider. If strider’s dhc puts him behind the AA, thats not so bad but its character dependant. You should always try to land on the front side so your machines make contact and your wave orb goes towards the opponent rather than being soaked up by the AA.

You also have spit, hsf on assists, quick cancel orbs, and get the assist into the assist kill position.

Even though assits that stop doom are a pain in the ass, striders ability to destroy assist play a HUGE roll into the metagame aka yomi layers. When your opponent understands that you can drop that assist in 1 hit, they’ll stop calling it out to snuff out doom and respect your DHC option. When thats the case, using doom when you’re in a dominant position will allow him to remain there unless your opponent wants to lose his AA.

using doom AA against characters that can stop him

say you got sent\doom on point against mag\psy. If mag gets about sent and you call doom, magneto can time his normals to stop doom, and chain cancel into an offense string against sent. You usually see stuff like this in the higher levels of play because its quite common. Doom’s head is his vulnerable point. There are no rocks up there. @ the risk of losing unfly, what you can do to make sure magneto doesn’t get a free string to set something up is jump where doom’s head is to stop magneto’s CH attempt on doom. You’re supposed to block a little higher than dooms head because a normal can create block stun and yet still pass through due to hit boxes “hanging out.” If you time this right, magneto has a VERY tough time stopping his CH onto doom and will probably chain cancel into a rock where a sj BnB is guaranteed.

This is dual edged sword. If you fuck it up, you’re in a bad spot but the thing is magneto STILL can win this with proper timing. You’ll just have to go with the flow of things and work it out based on proper counters. Sent should be able to get away once magneto times it properly. IMO, great players can do this fairly easily. My concept is not to let them have easy counters and make the execute difficult things\concepts back to back. Since we’re all human, mistakes are bound to happen and all I’m doing is jumping and blocking. While my opponent is working with strict timing and specific angles. From the probablity aspect of this, I should win this scenario more than I lose it.

Also, short RH bombs also work well with doom when the RB bombs will cover his head. The combination of the bombs+doom AA actually form 1 solid AA.

20

avoiding mistakes

After a while when you’ve played s\d for a while, you’ll start to notice how easy it is for strider to kill himself when you’re not on point with your execution. You can break this down into 2 sections. Execution itself and mid game strategy. Using proper mid game strategy to control how many times you have to input something risky will drastically increase your win ratio.

execution itself:

after you throw an animal and cancel into super, always do hcf+pp to activate. Doing it this way will prevent grab supers.

Doing a hcf+pp after a bomb cancel is kind of hard to do. Just make sue your go to neutral after the bomb input and the same goes for gram cancels. Srk+p, into qcf+pp.

sometimes strider players fuck up striders qcf+pp with a qcf+p. I can’t tell you why that happens sometimes but its a mistake any of us can make from time to time. If this happens and your orbs are off the screen or timed a perfect split orb setup, you can always cancel out before or after it makes contact. Don’t get mad that the move came out because it can be saved. Even though it can cost you trap rep, its better than letting the ninja die.

Now for the dreaded teleport move. The one move that has haunted every strider player to date. The wall climb is the problem with the teleport. The wall climb input is qcb+p. well, striders most useful teleports are his P ones and it happens to be only a 1 input difference between a wall climb and a teleport. There are only a few ways to deal with this. The first one is to just to srk’s till its pure muscle memory which is the way I do it. The 2nd more bullet proof way is to do a qcbx2+p. A double scoops is forced to be recoginzed as a shoryuken input. imo, its going to boil down to preference as a player. If you can play strider for 200 games and input wall climbs less than 10 times, thats a pretty good ratio.

I’ll post up using strategy to cut down on execution when I have more time.