I wonder if Viper would still be playable with a stricter input system.
yeaah suuure theyre gonna change it next time around :rolleyes: like jerry tellin george no one gets shot in the city
After reading some post it seems like most of you mash buttons alot no offense, imo sf4 is all about timing dunno but my moves seems to come out just fine and i use a d pad.
Some people who complain about “shortcuts”, don’t realize that their issue is with another aspect of the game and not any kind of shortcut system whatsoever. For instance, many of the people complaining about shortcuts don’t realize their issue is with either Input Leniency, Time Leniency, or Overlapping move-sets.
Input leniency: Any move in the same hemisphere will qualify for a directional input. So for example if you need to press back, you can use up-back, back, or down-back and any of those will qualify. So for example guile can do a sonic boom from down-back instead of back. Or a shoto can do a DP by doing ANY forward, ANY down, ANY forward. So you can get a DP from up-foward, down-back, up-forward.
Time Leniency:: The time window for inputs has been increased, so that the game will read the input buffer for a longer time than previous SF games. Which means you can perform moves slower than you would in previous games. As a result a direction you held from a previous move will get read in the buffer and will contribute to the move the game will think you are trying to perform. For example this is why you get a lot more walking forward into an hadouken turning into a DP in this game than previous SF titles, as you need to pause for a longer time frame.
Overlapping Move-Sets:When some characters (particularly the shotos) have many moves, like fireballs/supers/ultras/uppercuts etc which require similar directional motions its obvious that occasionally the wrong move will come out - even if the game did not have input leniency or time leniency. If for example with a shoto if there were a way you can specify in the game options that your fireball should now be qcb instead of qcf you would have a lot less unwanted moves happening, as less moves will now overlap.
Common Misconception: It is a common misconception that the game has specific input shortcuts built into it. For example many guides, players and even some pros will tell you that DF,DF, Punch is a shortcut for a DP. They are all wrong, no such “shortcut” exists. You can test this yourself, if you get a DP from that motion it means you accidentally hit an extra input (Down) when attempting the DF,DF and its the input leniency which gave you the DP. The Input Leniency in the game is often mistaken for built in shortcuts, which the game does not have per se.
Most of the people complaining about shortcuts don’t realize that “shortcuts” are not the cause of their problems, but one of the above factors.
Sometimes I feel that a lot of people blame their poor execution on shortcuts, I dont really have a problem with shortcuts, but more often or not, I realize I did the wrong movement because I was nervous or not paying attention…
some good posts in here, despite the ‘flogging a dead horse’ aspect.
Agree 120% with Barnaby_Goog and Drexion
I have to admit that the execution system in SFII is way too hard, rigid and unforgiving. in 3s, it became much much easier and smoother to perform QCF and SRK without resulting in that many execution errors if any. with SF4 they really blew it… especially the SRK command… i mean, even top level pro players miss Dictator’s ultra quite often because of the teleport command being an SRK motion… the solution? just use 3s execution system… casual gamers did not abandon 3s because of the excution system…it was the complexity of the game play system among other reasons of course.
This guys got it
That brings up a good point. If a person does nothing but rotates their stick and mashes buttons, they are 100% guaranteed to get every reversal opportunity presented to them as well as shoot off their Ultra Combo.
What if an anti-jam system was in place specifically for the reversals? If it detects the player repeatedly “pumping” the stick for a reversal, which may or may not include repeated button presses, then nothing happens. The move will only come out right after the reversal frames are gone.
I don’t know how this’ll effect characters like Zangief or Honda, though, who can rely on jamming out a reversal command grab to catch their opponent if he messes up a combo.
I would agree with the above statement about 3s inputs that would make this game solid as hell execution wise.
honda’s oicho is sloooow. if you’re getting reversal’d out of your combos or block strings you’ve leaving windows a bus could drive through.
Shortcuts can be kind of annoying, but it’s the time you’re given to press the buttons that gets me sometimes. Like when I do a cross under with Sakura after an EX Tatsu, if I press forward/dash to do the cross under and crouch to start the c.lk reset, sometimes an otoshi will come out instead if I have it slightly downforward, which I have to do sometimes (will explain in a second)
It’s also my execution on the xbox pad, so it’s not just the game, but the game and pad can be a bit iffy sometimes (like I have to hold downforward slightly to get a normal down input when I’m facing left to right after a cross-under sometimes, otherwise the game/pad puts it to downback for some reason). Just a whole mix of things that can make a little reset go horribly wrong 
But tighter input timing would help a lot with unwanted moves.
When doing a j.lk reset, I’ve even gotten an otoshi after a c.lk because of the time you’re allowed to be given, and getting an unwanted negative edge and I only pressed the lk button once according to the input viewer. The motions were uf, uf+lk, f, df, d, d+lk, df, df+lp, d according to the input viewer.
You can dragon punch with just the down, forward, down forward command on occasion.
Someone made a topic about it like a month ago with all sorts of shortcuts. The game fills in the missing gap sometimes.
I play with a stick and this happens to me as well. As E. Honda, someone will jump over me and try to cross me up. Since I’ve switched sides to keep my charge, when I try to attack, an Ochio Throw comes out. I’m not quite sure how that works, since I play on a square-gate and make sure not to ride the edges when I don’t mean to.
You don’t even need to do all of that.
:r::d::r:
:r::df::r:
:d::r: (Really fast!)
:df::df:
All these yield Shoryukens. The last one can be done from a crouch-blocking position, meaning that the shortcut is actually the two corners and not the person somehow hitting down AND corner.
custom input settings beyond controller settings would be hell for tournaments in the US.
DF, B, P will give you an ochio. If you’re charging with db, and they cross you up(now db is df), I can see it coming out if you switch your charge(back) and hit punch.
Overall, I think the biggest problem is the time leniency. Other the other problems brought up can be avoided. Easy reversals can be baited and you can tighten up your block strings. Shortcut stuff can be avoided with better execution…if I get a super instead of srk, I hit forward. If I try to walk forward and do c.mk x fireball, there’s no way to avoid waiting those extra frames before I do it.
I would think most players that are playing command motion characters and are any good do, since it lets you do dragon punch moves from crouch without ever standing up.
Not really.
Yes, really.
There’s videos proving it.
DF, DF, Punch will not give you a DP. As I mentioned above it is a common misconception that df,df is a valid DP shortcut in this game. Most of the time when attempting a DF the player will also register another direction (usually an extra D or F), due to the way keyswitches/microswitches work.
Feel free to test it yourself with show inputs on. Hell the very first video on a youtube search for shoryuken shortcut is one explaining that df, df alone does not result in a DP.
I’d love to see those videos, I haven’t been able to get it to work whatsoever. Input looks exactly like this:
df > df > p – Does not create a dragon punch, ever.
Thats not shortcuts bro, thats your bad execution.
Even in a game with no shortcuts,
:d::df::r::d::df: (what you’re doing wrong) is a teleport/srk.
:d::df::r::d::df::r: gives you a super/ultra.