If you have bad timing and execution, you get abused on wakeup. Sounds normal to me.
I’m fine with shortcuts. The reversal system is probably my only beef with SF4.
SF4 would have a lot more balance between offense and defensive play if the reversal windows were smaller.
:d::df::qcf::p: :db:~:hcb::ub: :df::d::df::p:
I do have to admit it is really dumb. If only the game would TELL you these things, then there wouldn’t really be much of an argument against it (other than it’s still kinda dumb or something).
I used to try to time every input perfectly so that I could link my moves together and perform moves with swift precision, but now I just hit the motion and mash the attack button until it comes out (Gouki HP>QCB+LK, SRK+HP). Although I’m glad I can get the move to come out even when under stress, it feels like I’m being rewarded without really trying.
I second everything. Ultras should not ever give ma teleport as Dhalsim
Who cares, if someone wants to do something immediately on wake-up, I say let them. They planned on it. If you want a super-technical fighter, go play some guilty gear. SF is strategy over technique, IMO. ST is the past. /opinion
Does anyone even use or know anyone who uses execution shortcuts, anyways? 
I don’t think that’s what they’re getting at, I think they want them out because they believe execution shortcuts give them unwanted results.
it’s different for QCF characters. if you “do” SRK from a crouch position, you could waste a super. if you “do” an EX SRK using the 3P button from the crouch position, you could waste an ultra. I use shortcuts mostly because of this problem. I’d actually prefer tighter input timing than the removal of shortcuts. there have been times when I’d throw a fireball, then move back slightly, then try throwing another (EX)fireball and super/ultra will come out. it’s disappointing at the very least that Capcom kept input timing so loose.
Anyway, I’m sick of seeing these wishlist threads for the next one. at least wait until it’s announced with pictures or something. As somebody said before, save your gripes, because they don’t amount to anything. just play the game.
That’s actually a plausible reason for the reversal window, it is stupidly big though. It’s like the game rewards button mashers, but if you’re smart, you’ll just bait the DP’s and punish.
The problem is punishing people who know what they are doing with the chance of unwanted results, not helping new players
this is just my opinion here, if anyone is offended i apologize
Knockdown situations are supposed to be a disadvantage to the player who allowed themselves to be knocked down. Now, a huge reversal window for things such as doing a Srk or super or ultra have a huge negating effect on that advantage, Because you can no longer with confidence approach a player and attempt to mix them up as they wake up. Only hope that they did not choose a wake up move as their option (which beats all of your mixups except bait and punish with the exception of akuma doing an air fireball).
To me, thats crippling the game by allowing for anyone and everyone to negate wake up mix ups because before with third strike being my example. You could pull off a wake up move but it involved some skill to understand the timing and opportunity to do these wake up moves. Allowing for players to gain their earned mix up off of a knockdown on the opponent.
Now im not saying its impossible to mix people up on knockdown in 4, but it changes the game because if someone see’s you standing over them and srk’s then if you were doing anything except option selecting a throw or baiting a dp then you are going to get nailed for even trying to mix up. Mix that with auto correct and you have almost negated a whole lot of pressure that can be gained from knocking down your opp.
Shortcuts are fine, if you are experiencing execution difficulties then i would suggest tightening up your execution and becoming more framiliar with the mechanics of the game because it is a different game, but the fact that wake up options for those who are knocked down have become to the point where on reaction you can reversal DP your opponent instead of trying to predict what they are going to do you have negated a very large aspect of the games advanced play tactics to the general population and bred a whole community of people who think that mashing out a dragon punch through every combo or wake up or mix up is gonna make them good at the game.
The problem with giving the advantage to the one who “won” the exchange is that it allows for runaway momentum where the winner just gets to knockdown the loser over and over. I see easy defense after knockdown more like basketball, where the team that scored loses possession, allowing for more back-and-forth in the game. If you want runaway momentum you might as well play a game with massive or infinite combos. If you want back and forth where a collection of small victories add up to a win then you want a game where after a combo string the “loser” in the exchange has a chance to even off the game.
except the problem with that is that some characters (shotos) gain way more out of this system than others (charge characters or characters without an amazing 3-frame-invunerable-into-ultra reversal).
example: shotos can mash dumb shit like :db::df::db::df::p: to get out of resets and left-right mixups (sakura comes to mind), no thinking required.
not only that, but there are lots of situations where you can DP and FADC backwards to be completely safe on wake-up with no risk whatsoever, and potentially a free super or ultra if your opponent even thought of pressing their advantage. since it carries zero execution risk, why not?
Capcom needs to take the training wheels off.
Yes the input timing is VERY losse, but it has never been a problem to me , it only helps me, but i can see where u can get problems with it.
About shortcuts, it think they should move some of the rediculous one but some come in handy where it would be very difficult to input move, i used to have alot of trouble inputing srk from crouch but with shortcut it helps eliminate this problem. And i really don’t have any problem with the reveral window seems ok to me. BTW the only fightings games i were ever really good at are SF4 and SF ex 2.
this right here is completely untrue. There was revesal timing in Street fighter 2, however you had to have skills and timing in order to hit that reversal timing.
So in a sense, yes if you are the worse player and someone who is much better than you knocks you down then you will get the snot beat out of you the entire match, and no dont ever compare street fighter giving the advantage on knockdown to a marvel or snk game we are talking apples and oranges there.
and even in those games to this day you have the disadvantage on knockdown because even in marvel or king of fighters you have to think of what your opponent who has the advantage will do while your knocked down.
these games are fighting games not boxing games. about 70 percent of damage is won off of successfully knocking your opponent down and mixing them up using your advantage for what it is. In street fighter 4 that has changed due to the fact that anyone with two thumbs and the ability to rub their d-pad and mash the a button can start off what with half the uppercut charachters ends in a combo that can easily remove half your bar.
im not saying i hate the game, i think its a completely different direction for street fighter and i can accept most of the things about it, but breaking your momentum on every knockdown and letting the match reset is a big error on capcoms part that makes people who arent good at the game feel good and really irks those who are looking for competition that will help them learn matchups and actually progress their skills.
That’s really character dependent. Go play Guile. A good number of his links are all 1 frame.
QFT.
It’s not that everyone’s mad cause execution shortcuts are lowering the barrier to entry. It’s that people are trying to walk up hadouken and they get a SRK (one of many examples).
I agree with the OP.
Get rid of shortcuts and make the whole game tighter.
I think the reversals are fine. You should always ukemi, though, unless you press and hold down two buttons right as you hit the ground.
As for shortcuts, it could be handled like the voice actor settings. You could have a way to personally set the input shortcuts, so that you can get rid of the ones that mess you up (:qcf: = :dp:), but keep the ones that you like (:hcf::uf: / :df::df:). Taking it a step further, you could have different settings for each characters and set how tight you want the inputs to be (though, it should never exceed/go higher than the default frames).
Off topic, but grabs should also ALWAYS take input priority over everything else. As Balrog, I hold :l: or :db: all the time, which screws me up when I try to make a quick grab and just flop myself right into their arms with a Dashing Straight or Upper.
I like to play with Ryu, maybe that shortcuts thing is why I get dragonpunch when I made Fireballs and the Fireballs when I tried dragonpunch, it’s a litthe frustrating. 