^^^^ I am not saying whether he is or is not an “A-Tier” fighter. I just used it as an example that the tiers are STILL changing and being debated.
Personally, if the tiers list is good enough for the Tougeki Tournament, it is good enough for me. If a person has ever watched the X7 finals. You’ll see that, when the theory can be executed in real life game play, O. Hawk put a lot of hurt on you.
In theory if N.Hawk can knock you down once he can win for free as well right? So why is he not A-tier as well? Why is N.Hawk ranked C-tier if he can also ‘win for free’?
“How would that not be A-tier?”
These charts aren’t based on just ‘theory fighter’. The Japanese take data from tournaments like X-Mania and sit down and construct charts. They even have nights at some arcades where people play the same match-up over and over again and then they record the data and construct charts based on those results.
Gian has played thousands and thousands of matches of ST. But everything in his chart is theory? You said “tiers are all theory”. Which means that you are basically invalidating Gian’s knowledge based on his experience playing thousands of matches when he constructed the chart linked above. If Gian plays 1,000 matches as Sim versus Dictator and says that he thinks that match-up is 6-4 in Sim’s favor he’s only theory fighting?
Saying a tier or diagram is all theory is ridiculous and a gross exaggeration. I’m not sure if you are attempting to discredit ‘theory fighting’ because you think it’s invalid but you are wrong. Assembling tiers is a combination of experience (someone played the X amount of matches), raw data (Chun won Y matches, T.Hawk won Z), and theory (I’d say the match-up is N-(10-N) in Hawk’s favor). Saying Gian, or anyone else, assembled a chart based on “all theory” comes across as absurd.
Theory fighter and tier assembly can most certainly be done validly.
ken/ryu beat honda worse than guile/deejay.
Well they’re all bad for honda.
This tier list is off. I don’t know about any other characters, but Blanka and I see some matches that could be changed which could possibly lead to a slight raise in Blankas ranking
BlueTallCans
My understanding is that only O.Hawk had the infinite throw loop, N. Hawk didn’t. But I could be wrong in which case, I would be curious to see why N. Hawk would be so much lower…
(From Below) I consider myself re-educated on the matter. ST confuses me… this is why I play HDR 
^^^^ His normals and upper cut are not as good. However, N. Hawk does have the throw loop BTW.
has anybody noticed the new tierlist changed again? sagat has been dethroned, and ryu has been bumped by his honda match.
Just noticed that low tier was given different shades of brown.
low tier = shit tier
For entertainment purposes, here’s my current take on it (taken from The inevitable tier thread, 2009-Sept-21):
Bal Dha Veg Ryu Sag Dee E.H Chu M.B Ken Gui Cam Bla Fei T.H Zan Total
Balrog - 5 5.5 5.5 6 6 5 5 6 6 6 4 6 6.5 6 4 82.5
Dhalsim 5 - 4 6 7 6 4 4 5 6 6 3 4.5 5.5 6 6 78
Vega 4.5 6 - 6 6 5 4 5 4 5.5 6.5 5.5 6 6 7 6 83
Ryu 4.5 4 4 - 5 6 7 6 6 6 5 6.5 6 6 5.5 5 82.5
Sagat 4 3 4 5 - 5 5.5 5.5 5 5.5 6 5 5 4.5 6.5 7 76.5
Dee Jay 4 4 5 4 5 - 6.5 5 6 5 5 6 6 7 6.5 6.5 81.5
E.Honda 5 6 6 3 4.5 3.5 - 4.5 6 3 4 6.5 6 6.5 8 7 79.5
Chun Li 5 6 5 4 4.5 5 5.5 - 5.5 5.5 5 5.5 5.5 5.5 4.5 7 79
M.Bison 4 5 6 4 5 4 4 4.5 - 4 5 6 5 5 5 6 72.5
Ken 4 4 4.5 4 4.5 5 7 4.5 6 - 4.5 6.5 6 6 5 5.5 77
Guile 4 4 3.5 5 4 5 6 5 5 5.5 - 7 3.5 6 6 7 76.5
Cammy 6 7 4.5 3.5 5 4 3.5 4.5 4 3.5 3 - 5.5 5.5 7 7 73.5
Blanka 4 5.5 4 4 5 4 4 4.5 5 4 6.5 4.5 - 4.5 6.5 7 73
Fei Long3.5 4.5 4 4 5.5 3 3.5 4.5 5 4 4 4.5 5.5 - 6 7 68.5
T.Hawk 4 4 3 4.5 3.5 3.5 2 5.5 5 5 4 3 3.5 4 - 5 59.5
Zangief 6 4 4 5 3 3.5 3 3 4 4.5 3 3 3 3 5 - 57
From your chart, you feel like the worst matchups in the game are 7’s. With the only 8-2 being honda v hawk?
Is the game that different from ST?
I think it’s most different for those lopsided matchups. Honda matchups especially have been “softened” (i.e. are less all-or-nothing) w.r.t. ST, and he sure did have some crazy ones. Also, no Old Sagat.
Yeah I’ve never actually played against an O.sagat. How many characters actually stood a chance against him?
IIRC, Ryu could stand with him (was tough for Ryu but doable), I heard chun-li could stand with him (build meter by doign air SBK while jumping over tigers, then do stored super.)
I thought we agreed that Honda Hawk was 2.5 Thelo.
I played JigglyNorris a few matches the other day(Honda V Hawk).
And it made me feel like I’ve never held a controller before.
>.<
(I was Honda BTW)
Dhalsim gave O.Sagat the hardest time IMO.
Lol, yeah I know that fight really well.
Here’s another question, why even bother including akuma on that list? He’s banned because he has a glitch, and all that other nonsense. Why do we need to know his matchups?
Yeah, that’s why I didn’t include Akuma on my chart.