As a player who’s had a tendancy to auto-pilot in the past, I can say that it takes a significant amount of work to turn the autopilot switch off. Just sayin’
Yeah I used to play autopilot too. It’s ok if people start that way. But when I talked to players I respected, and they told me to stop a certain habit, or that I consistently got punished for something, I stopped doing it. It made me play weaker, because it threw off the rhythm I had before when I was autopiloting, but I didn’t want to disrespect the people trying to help me.
How many times have you heard someone say “oh fuck” or whatever the moment they intiate something they know they shouldn’t have done?
Right there is an example of someone who was consiously trying to change their game but accidently did something else out of habit anyway, and yes it does change over time with people like that, the “oh fuck” momet starts coming before the move is executed and is replaced with what the player should be doing, it’s like learning to punish something on reaction, a player starts out not doing it quick enough and gets his punishers blocked a load, but given time to get used to it he eventualy rectifies the problem.
If everyone could immediately replicate all advice given first time, everyone checking up on the strats posted in places like here and dustloop would be top tier players on day one of a game’s console release and there would be no point in practicing anything ever.
You talk about getting thrown off balence when attempting to implement new stuff in your game, isn’t that the same as the player accidently doing something else instead, both are having a minor brain fart but just in a slightly different way.
I’m thinking of something simple here. Like, if I tell you don’t dash up throw, and you do it anyway and get punished, I don’t think you have any excuse, because its something people do in low pressure situations.
But if its something more complex like figuring out position to throw fireballs so you aren’t at risk of the opponent anticipating with a jump in combo, sure, that will take some time.
Ok fair enough then, that makes sense, I was thinking mainly of mistakes that are made under pressure.
i have to reply with this quote because i would really love everybody in SRK.com read Azraels post.
very, very well said, a mature and enlighting answer.
also, i just would like to add that, if only pros and former SFIII players had bought SFIV, then SSFIV would have never been developed, and few companies would had invested money and effort developing new fighting games.
The more friendly a game is with new players, the better for the overall scene. At the end, pros and serious players would learn and use advanced tactics and technics that will put them in a higher level.
lastly, taking into account that you need more than 500 hours playing SFIV to start to become a good player, i wouldnt say SFIV is newbie friendly at all…
Yeah I should have been more specific 
I still feel an inability/failure to preform/change instantly does not show unwillingness to learn.
I played marvel for 6 years on Playstation2, and then discovered SRK.
My entire game was magic series, fall either left or right at random going for a crossup, repeat. That was it. Six years of that. Then all of a sudden I see people doing infinites/five fierce combos, and other higher level stuff, and I wanted to learn to play marvel ‘right’. I would still naturally magic series off of a launcher, even though I KNEW I should be setting up the ROM, or doing a 5-fierce.
Same went for cable. My gameplan was gunx4->super. I had NO IDEA that you could TK AHVB, I had NO IDEA why it was so good, all I knew was if my opponent didnt block they were taking like a 37 hit combo!
As I played (and won or lost) I had my oh shit moments, and over time my fingers started playing right. I no longer did standing HVB… and if one came out, I would do the ‘oh fuck’ instantly, even against players that didn’t know how to punish it.
Meh, short version:
It’s unfair to judge someone’s willingness/ability to learn based soley on them still making the mistakes that you point out to them. Even if you tell them not to, and they do, they might notice that that’s why they’re eating so much damage.
People are people. Some are going to persevere, and some aren’t, and all at different paces. It’s true in SF, and in anything.
I think a lot of that goes into the fact said player doesn’t have said helper to watch over the shit they do to remind them not to do said things.
I get what you’re saying. dash up>throw is something you don’t want to do if you’re getting hurt for it. But if you’re coming right off of SRK and readin help, THEN try to apply all the stuff you just read into a match, it’s obviously not going to help. Lets face it, most people will have matches, come here, tell their story, then ask what’s wrong. People explain and help, they get it, then run back off without trying to train. Which in turn has them still falling for the same problems because they only “read what to do” rather than taking it a step further to practice the problem. It’s like learning something new in math just enough to understand. But if you don’t practice/study it to the point it’s second nature, you’re still going to have said problem when something new in the equation is presented.
This actually reminds me of T6 and replay capture. A lot of people know what it’s for and then a majority of people don’t even know about it or find it useless. Or tell people to use Defensive training. While that’s good, it’s not better than trying to do certain mixups/moves to see what to punish. But are people ignoring that because they don’t go into training to use it or because all they care about is playing?
I think I’m suffering from not being specific enough again.
Could you do stuff like the ROM or 5 fierce consistently? I certainly wouldn’t expect someone to be able to perform a new combo on the spot, or even the next day. So yeah, your examples aren’t really what I was getting at, but thats my fault for not being specifying in the beginning.
Yes, but that’s a case of being uninformed and then learning what you didn’t know.
Pherai seems to be referring to people who persist in bad habbits and a unwillingness to improve a.k.a. scrubs. Unless I’m mistaken.
I think it’s a mix of both scrub and noob honestly. they’re noob enough to ask, but not really applying said things they just learn which in turns makes them look more of a scrub afterwards. The Autopiloting comes in to play there.
this actually reminds me of some guy who plays Bang in BB. Guy has potential in general, but dude just autopilots once the match starts. Stays on the offensive and doesn’t really do anything else. You tell him to get better and he’s all “ok yea I do need to get better” but he really doesn’t improve…or he may add 1-2 new routes to his autopiloting.
I think pretentious posts from self-proclaimed (though in a passive-aggressive way) non-scrub OG’s hurt the scene more. Everyone is a new player at one point and everyone has had their share of noob moments. No one strolls into an arcade, drops in a quarter, plays for 3 hours, hands it off to a kid because they’re tired of winning, raises their hands and proclaims ‘sexual chocolate’ before walking away. That shit doesn’t happen. It takes months to learn something new and if you’re saying you picked it up in a day without asking any questions that in hindsight were noobish, then you’re a friggin’ liar.
New blood is new life, and just like everything, there will be some good and some bad within a group. Your jobs as OG’s is to nurture and inform, otherwise, your incoming class of freshment fighters will have to resort to making up their own rules, ideals and tactics…and that’s how you get ‘no throws’ and ‘throw me I throw you back’. Info may fall on deaf ears or someone may take it and run with it…but you’ll never know if your mentality right off the bat is ‘noobs are bad’.
develop active thought, and want to win. og players don’t have any responsibility to new players besides playing the game. if the desire is really there, you’ll figure out how to win eventually. you guys obviously aren’t losing enough.
that’s true, OG’s don’t need to do a anything but excel…but all this talk of ‘community’ and how it was hurting led me to believe in the contrary. if ‘wanting’ to be good was all it tool, we’d all be pros. If we didn’t have sites like sonichurricane and folks like valle didn’t post here or contribute, the growth of knowledge would slow to a crawl.
I don’t expect every good player to post their cell phone numbers, and I don’t expect them to buy me a drink and explain the nuances of the engine. Hell, I don’t even expect them to have the best attitudes. They don’t have to do any of that, but what would help is the continued, unfiltered and unrestricted sharing of knowledge. Put it out there and if we read and learn, thank you. If not, our loss.
There will always be a huge gap between the noobs, intermediates and pros and that doesn’t disappear with the introduction of new players. If anything, it makes yall look even better. Being the best out of 10,000 or being the best out of 500,000…which is better on your tourney trophy?
New players pros:
-more competition to pad your win stats
-more money for companies to spend on better games
-a higher chance for new skilled competition to develop
-more fight money for you to take
-more exposure to elevate us from subculture to something more visible
-easier to find local player matches instead of depending on weak-ass Internet
-new ideas and perspectives
new player cons:
-annoying questions
-annoying tactics
-annoying mentality
isn’t the inconvenience of annoyance worth all the pros?
“Sexual Chocolate” Dunno why but that just sounds cool, maybe something to use as a team name or something.
And the OGs are already putting the information out there, look at the character sections in the games that have them, check out the guides that have been written (Special mention to Kro’s Rachel guide over on DL, that’s awesome), most information existing information on basics and stuff are readily available without having to make new threads to ask. (Although we do have the Saikyo Dojo for that now as well)
That said, scrubbyness does need to be stamped down on somehow since scrubs are pretty good at turning other newer players who haven’t heard of playing to win into scrubs as well, but that doesn’t take an OG to do, anyone can do it really.
By the way, which part of the community had the most input into SFIV? Did stuff like easy come from existing players, OG’s, or did Capcom just decide to make it so? It seems odd to me that new players had much input into SFIV, because the game was loke tested in Japanese with top existing players, and most of the newer players only started getting into the scene after the game was released. So if people aren’t happy with the way the game was produced, surely they should be blaming Capcom rather than the people who had no say in it’s production and only got into the game afterwards? Sure, these same players might influence newer games too, but from what I can tell, game companies seem to be far more capable of making or breaking the scene than it’s fans.
Maybe this thread’s title should have been “New SF hurting players”…
How about: “Ono hurting SF”
Ono Community.
Applause.