You play gouken by zoning when they want you to rush, by rushing when they want you to defend, and defending when they want you to zone.
Gouken noob here with an introductory question… I looked through a bunch of threads and a common complaint is that Gouken has no safe specials.
However, the srk Ultra wiki says his gohadouken is +2 on block. Wouldnt that mean that ending blockstrings with it is safe? Is that frame data incorrect?
Fb isn’t safe because it is too slow on startup to be a true blockstring, and since it can’t do double with ex, it can be safely focused.
Ah. Thank you. Understood.
I guess its from a lack of seeing enough top-level Gouken play, but I feel like I’ve never seen anyone consistently reaction-focus cr.MP into fireball. I’d imagine that if you use it sparingly it should still suffice decently as a blockstring that leaves you +2?..
People tend not to do it just because of lack of matchup knowledge. Play anybody good long enough and they’ll find the holes.
^ Or anybody just mashing.
When someone likes to focus through my fireballs I just do jab->buffer to light palm immediately after my fireballs. 
EDIT: nvm i misunderstood. you can’t do what i’m suggesting when cancelled from c.MP
Anyway, this shit about not having safe specials isn’t true anyway. Gouken’s light palm is pretty safe. It’s -4 and if you aren’t doing it raw (you did some normals first) it pushes them back far enough that only Ryu and Chun Li (and so forth) are gonna punish it.
Like, Gouken’s sweep is -3 and we all think of that as being super safe even at point blank. But -4 with way more pushback than Sweep and suddenly it isn’t safe anymore? I don’t get it. Palm even breaks armor.
cr.mp x lp hado is stupidly unsafe/risky if the cr.mp was blocked… opps not punishing or gaining some sort of positional advantage lack Gouken match up. Imo it’s really a bad tool and will get you blown up by better, experienced players if used regularly…
If you wanna see how safe it is. Record gouken with mp into hado, and so on and you’ll see the only ones that are “true block string are HP(standing and crouching)” mp you can do through it and lp doesn’t connect
Preach on!
If they constantly focus after cr.mp xx hado, they are most likely predicting, not reacting. You can easily not do the hadoken, watch for the focus and punish the dash in with ex tatsu or if you feel froggy, just cr.hp xx ex palm xx pain and stun dammit. Or even ultra…LOL.
i never liked it as much as the rest of the gouken world either , i see cats sit on that shit all day…i prefer crmp to st mp or cl mp when applicable
c.MP Hadoken sucks because c.MP was not designed to be a footsies tool in the traditional sense. It has 2 active frames and combos to nothing at max range.
In SF4’s 2015 update, I would really like to see changes to c.MP that solidify its role as a poke. Like, all I want (aside from bugfixes):
- Crouching medium punch is now +4 instead of +3. Pushback reduced significantly. Active frames now 3, from 2. Recovery increased to 16 from 14. Start-up increased to 6 frames from 5.
- Close standing light kick is now +4 on hit instead of +3.
The first change makes c.MP a viable poke in footsies. It is now slower to balance its role as a shoto-style poke and and more punishable on whiff. In exchange it now combos to Hadoken at max range and at closer ranges will be a blockstring to light palm, which is situationally punishable at -4. It can still be subject to reversals when cancelled to fireball, as it is not a blockstring like other similar poke->fireball combos (Rose, Ryu, Ken). The reduced pushback ensures that it will be punishable in this way.
The second change makes the c.lp, cs.lk, c.lp->special combo easier without offering any meaningful utility to Gouken’s light normals. The problem with increasing frame advantage is that you can often create new combos, but since you wouldn’t often start a combo with cs.LK there’s not really a risk of giving Gouken additional options, only making one combo easier to perform. This change to me is a win-win.
When Capcom starts gathering feedback for the 2015 update I’ll be really pushing for these.
^^^ Bumping response to different thread.
Yo, fuck cl.st.lk. Seriously. The fuck is that move for? Fuck more frames and shit. Get rid of it. It’s shitty in every sense of the word shitty. If they’re changing things again and buffing or what not, there are plenty of other things they could do, like give us some viable way to deal with these fucking armor breaking safe specials that characters like Cody have. I can’t stand that shit. The dude just did some stupid invincible frame move that breaks armor and I have to keep fucking blocking afterwards. And he’s not the only one. T-Rex arm cr.lp is not a solution. Fuck it, I’m calling for a global change in the damn game. If it’s safe, it doesn’t break armor. If it breaks armor, IT’S NOT SAFE. If it hit’s you more than once, IT’S NOT SAFE. Fuck a scissor kick. Fuck a zonk punch. What in the fuck was Capcom thinking?
Cl. st. lk does absolutely nothing. LOL.
…
ahem, cody’s zonk is -8 on block, what are u talking?
scissor is a different story though…
Ex? I fail horribly at punishing Cody. I play a dude who is a monster. You can’t expect to punish some of this stuff. Cody can space stuff to be safe and maybe its just me, but I can’t hit the dude without being on offense. He can follow anything with ex zonk and yeah, try punishing that shit. Or even better, combo to lp cu…over and over. Press a button, eat ex zonk. Or land a cr lp…woopty doo. Am I wrong here? Is there something I’m missing?
the only good thing I can say is that it’s got an oddly good hurtbox up top.
Right. If he hits meaty or spaces the moves out correctly, the only thing you can possibly punish is bad zonk (which gives good push back) and his mk ruffian (-5 at best and if spaced out you can barely punish), hk ruffian is -19 on block but can be -7 at best (good push back), ex ruffian -5 at best (good push back).
Same with all of his listed normals and criminal uppers… they can all be made safe.
Whenever he’s attacking you meaty or spacing it out and you block, he’s going to be un-punishable in most cases… and most smart players will use lp criminal upper (-4 on block, and has push back) in block strings, so you can barely punish especially online.
All non-ex zones are -8, but have 3 active so they can be -6 with added pushback, and ex zone is -7 but can be -6 as well, with 2 active frames.
Basically if he is spacing out or meatying you, you are placed in a frame trap.