Only ex karakuza is -4 con block, others are at least -5, so you can ex tatsu then con block and AA all of her jumps in. She is indeed a pain, and she can be zoned to an extend, after she gets in you have to be patient and wait calmly…
Just to clarify: you mean EX Hayate. Karakusa is the command grab.
Folks, frame data only tells a 3rd of the story. Three things need to be accounted for when punishing moves.
- Actual Frame Data. (What’s the standard frame advantage/disadvantage)
- How many active frames are there and which frame(s) did the attack register *(If hit on later frames the opponent gains frame advantage based on the frame it was hit) This results in many moves being safe on block or unpunishable if they are spaced out correctly, it also results in some moves being able to combo or frame trap even though actual frame data says otherwise.
- Push Back (how far does it push the opponent back? * (It can be -5 for example, but if you don’t have attack that can reach in time it’s basically unpunishable b/c the character you are using has nothing to punish it… Example Fuerte’s Queso Bomb is minus forever but it pushes back so far that most characters can’t punish it)*
Just picking on Makoto for Example
Lp Hayate lv1 (5 active frames) on block = -7
1st active frame -7, 2nd af -6, 3rd af -5, 4th af -4, 5th af -3. Then you have to include any related push back if any.
Hp Hayate lv1 (5 active frames) on block = -6
1st active frame -6, 2nd af -5, 3rd af -4, 4th af -3, 5th af -2. Then you have to include any related push back if any.
EX Hayate (6 active frames) on block= -4
1st active frame -4, 2nd af -3, 3rd af -2, 4th af -1, 5th af 0, 6th af +1 Then you have to include any related push back if any.
So the above should show depending on how Makoto spaces her hayates out Gouken can’t punish them. So rule of thumb would be if Makoto hits Gouken with a spaced out Hayate, you may want to confirm the punish rather than just pressing a general punish b/c of what standard frame data says.
Frame data just assumes every attack has hit on the 1st active frame, but we all know that’s not the case.
Yup, that’s what I meant!!!
I am just flummoxed by Demon Flip Throw. Holy moly, someone help me here. Why, why, why can’t I get this to connect? I even went ahead and mapped a throw button, which I never do, to try and get this thing to connect. I cannot get this shit to work. It will not land. I get this thing to connect maybe 1/50 attempts in matches. What the hell am I doing wrong? Is it an issue of timing? Am I supposed to do this at a specific altitude or distance away? God, please help me. It’s driving me insane.
you hit the throw button when you are within throw range, yes.
go into training mode and just lk flip throw over and over until you get the timing down for a standing opponent. Then have the AI crouch and do it again. The timing window is actually quite liberal.
You have to do it at around their head. On some tall characters like Hugo and Sagat, you must aim a little below the top if their heads, as the hurtbox can be deceptively low.
Otherwise it isn’t that hard unless the opponent crouches while you’re flying there, which can alter the timing before you notice and make you look silly
There’s something, the height restriction is about the second line you see in the background. If you do it full screen I’ll likely wiff (unless ex) sometimes wiff crouchers unless you’re canceling a poke in their face. So just practice my friend!!!
Unless my opponent is doing an empty jump, is there any reason not to AA with fierce and EX kongo? I’ve been using it and love it.
Ex tatsu’s 200 damage!!!
What if I have no meter? Fierce kongo good option? The only reason I ask is because I’ve been using it lately and its been great, though I don’t see it used too often by better Gouken players.
If you KNOW they are going to press a button it’s ok to do. Just don’t get carried away with it b/c if they empty you, you can use a ton of life.
Any attack that trades with or beats your cr. fp you can hp kongo. St. FP is a great option as well. I normally cr. fp as a check off.
Kongo is almost always risky to use, b/c it only works if they pressed a button.
I try to limit my anti-air Kongos to like once in 3 rounds and that might still be too often. I mean every once in a wihle you run into that Sakura player who just has NO BRAIN and will NOT STOP hitting jump fierce but most of the time if you use it too often people start wrecking your shit for it.
Kongo works for mind games. If they believe you are kongo happy, well now you can freely punish their empty jump in with whatever you want.
Lk tatsu, it works wonder and people tend to sleep on it
In my experience…
Kongo is most useful against jumpins when its a race to hit you before you can block. They need to be able to taste that damage.
Lemme’ ask some scrub questions:
How in the fuck are you supposed to play Gouken? Is he just fireball keepaway and punish? Because it seems like how he’s played is playing the fireball game, bait them to jump in or do something, punish it, or you try to demon flip in or maybe sweep. His footsies aren’t great. So, I dunno. You try to put them in a reset situation and no matter what happens either the dude mashes out Shoryu as I do his overhead or cr.MP into fireball or something, or they just block.
What’s the consensus on his rank in the tiers?
How long have you been playing Gouken? He has bad match ups for sure, but he is far more versatile and complex than you’re saying. You are complaining about people mashing shoryuken on wake up. I WANT them to do that usually. I want them do try to get around my fireballs. Start playing with his dash. The dude is MOBILE. His normals are terrible for footsies if you’re not using the correct approach, but otherwise they are pretty good. Just poke with f st.hp (gdlk) f.st.mk, st.lk, Cr.mp ( gdlk), Cr.lk (also gdlk). Watch some videos of Proudstrawberry, SkyAkuma. Go to the video section here and watch. Gouken in Ultra is a boss. The key is to make them press buttons when YOU want them to. It takes practice.
IMO, Gouken can’t be defined by tiers properly. I would say top mid if I had to choose simply because the top tier characters all have tricks that defy proper use of the game, like Ibuki, Yun, Viper…etc. You can’t block them correctly, can’t escape them, can’t reversal them, can’t punish them without big risks.
Sounds like Gouken too… lmao.
Except Gouken is punishable…