Then Gen has a load of exceptions. His mantis st.MP is +2 on CH and cr.MP is +1 on CH. +2 for the fierce underhand too. In fact, I don’t think he has a normal that gives +3 on CH.
I’m probably going to test Gouken’s overhead on CH sometime today.
@Bosscat - Regarding you BnB woes.
Yes that BnB isn’t a good hit confirm.
This is what i do:
- I only do the proposed st.HP > Ex Palm when i know i’m going to hit it, after a Focus Attack or Opponents fireball recovery for example.
The way i get around it is to do cr.HP > LP.Hado. (with the jump in of choice)
This allows for a safe blockstring that leaves you at a comfortable distance from your opponent.
Also, being easy to perform, if it hits then you have the option to FADC > cr.HP > EX.Palm or FADC Sweep.
Another option available is st.MP > cr.HP > LP.Hado
This choice is a little longer but has a tight-ish link from st.MP to cr.HP.
(Pros: +can be used as a frame trap, + create more of a distance, can still be FADC’d Swept & cr.HP > EX.Palm (if jump in wasnt a crossover.)
Cons: - Link could be messed up which allows them to block (not too bad), - if link is missed then loses to mashers.)
I still feel the time from cr.HP > LP.Hado gives you enough time to see if the cr.HP hits then you know the LP.Hado will and can FADC it.
None of these are option selects though, but rather hit-confirms. Gouken doesn’t have many good hit confirms.
Option Selects are a whole other barrel of fish, which are slightly harder to integrate into your game due to the risk they pose if messed up (Ex Tatsu in particular.)
in my opinion.
Clear? ^-^
If you do a demon flip dive kick you should be able to do cl.st.mp > c.hp XX palm or fireball.
Come one month from now you will have a slew of easy hitconfirms to work with but for now, what you have is listed below. If anyone knows any others feel free to list them.
Gouken has a couple of hit confirms.
cl.st.mp branches off into:
hold forward > cl.st.mk
c.hp (2 frame link)
c.hk (2 frame link)
st.lp
c.lp
c.lk
c.mp
st.mp (not cancellable until 2012)
cl.st.mp (depending on depth of jump in and character)
cl.st.hk branches off into:
far st.mp on large majority of cast (cancellable in 2012)
c.hk on select people
st.lp and c.lp both link into cl.st.mk (1 frame)
Counterhit hit confirms that I know of-
Overhead > c.lp
far st.hp > sweep
far st.mp > sweep
Thank you very much for your answers.
Making the combo longer by using cr.hk -> Hadouken sounds to be the easier way for me atm so I’ll try to implement it in my game.
I’m going to delete my other post now.
I gotta Question:
Counter hits - the only way to know if you got one is by the words “Counter Hit” appearing.(or you see yourself hit a moves startup)
I never change my combo’s on whether i got a counter hit or not.
I don’t have enough time to react i feel.
I would like insight into how others use counterhit? **
[LIST]
[]Are you able to react in any way?*
[]Do you ignore it and say ‘cool’ when you get one.
[]Do you try to setup counter hit opportunites (What happens when it fails?)
[/LIST]
Probably a typo, it should be cr.HP -> Hado.
Yeah try FADC-ing that in training, it’s a good habit to get into. (try FADC > sweep first, then try FADC > cr.HP > Ex.Palm .)
Cl.st.hk can also lead to cr.lk and cr.mp
Cl.st.mp leads to cr.mk
First, I have specific counter hits I am looking for.
When playing footsies, when I push st.hp if I see counterhit I just sweep. This is not a counterhit that is hard to see, you throw out your attack when they are close if they tried something, boom counterhit > sweep. You can also just sweep with the required timing whether or not it is a counterhit but that’s up to you, you are committing to another attack.
I only look for st.mp counterhit after I jump in and use my hit confirm. A typical sequence for me goes like this:
Jump in with mk, hp, hk, or dive kick > cl.st.mp (check for hit confirm) -
If I hit, I will –
c.hp fireball
c.hp EX palm/palm
sweep
if blocked, I will –
Kara throw
st.mp (looking for counter hit into sweep)
c.mp xx flip throw/kick
c.hp xx fireball blockstring out
or sometimes I mess up and get st.hp counterhit which I can link into sweep if I’m awake.
Forgot about the first two. They don’t lead to anything now or in 2012 though 
Really a shame imo.
You can hk tatsu >fadc> Shin Sho after the cr.lk if you feeling confident about your plink and tatsu works on that char. And its a range where Gouken doesn’t cross under. And heck you can tatsu after the cr.mp as long as its a char it works on too. And u can always cancel into a demonflip for mix-ups. Cl.st.mp to cr.mk is pretty much pointless as the cr.mk has no range. Another char spec hit confirm( I think it is) is cl.st.mp to st.mk. Worthless though
Yeah I meant it is worthless in terms of combos. Those two things were the first things I checked when AE came out along with whether or not backwards jump mp cancelled into tatsu worked or if tatsu flew backwards as well.
I refuse to use tatsu in any combo outside of EX palm stuff so for me it is useless but you are right, if you want to FADC into Ultra that works and as for c.mp into tatsu I’d be surprised if that works with anyone considering that c.lk will only snag the first hit of tatsu. I’d assume cr.mp would push everyone out of range of tatsu.
I try not to cancel into flip off guaranteed damage (meaning I could do other combos other then consciously go for st.hk > c.mp xx flip). Only time I will forego damage is during an EX palm midscreen. Sometimes I’ll dash and cr.mp xx flip.
Ive been using this counter hit setup: cl.lk >cl.mk>hold forward…st.lk>st.lp>far.mk…odd yes and different too!
Dude… what? What are you talking about? Where is the counter hit in that?
I’m reading that as you do cl.st.lk linked into cl.st.mk then you hold forward for what I am guessing is the counterhit gap then you do a far.st.lk linked into far st.lp linked in far standing mk.
Is that what you are saying?
oops my bad …
cl.lk >cl.mk>hold forward…st.lk>hold forward>st.lk>cl.mk>far mk
i know it doesnt make sense but it gets counter hits , Ive only een using it for about 12 hours now…
Again, I have no idea what you are saying in that thing… " > " indicates a link.
I also don’t see the purpose of getting a counter hit anywhere in there. The purpose of a counter hit is to make combos that were not previously possible, now possible. I.E. far.st.hp > sweep and st.mp > sweep.
The sweep is not the counterhit, the sweep is the second hit in a combo starting with the first normal.
Counter hits to me mean :“Good job youre psychic , this sure is swell!” & "He must be pissed off by now thats the 3rd counter hit in a row!"
I dont rely on them to help me with combos.
The idea is to throw out some shit opponents havent seen so they can attempt to poke me out of it…fishing for a counter-hit or two.
Why you gotta sound so brand new every time?
I know I know my notations are wrong sometimes and I have not mastered framespeak, but to treat it like thats all your getting from my posts is an opportunity to say " wrong" or " I dont understand what youre saying" seems borderline sophmoric.
Yea cl.st.hk > cr.mp> tatsu does not work. I was thinking of cl.st.mp> cr.mp> tatsu. The push back from cl.st.hk is too great. But the lk> hk tatsu will fully connect, only first hit will connect(the majority) and whiff completely depending on the char. Heres of who it works on. What have you discovered with Gouken in AE? Anyways I think the only normal gouken should be doing after cl.st.hk is st.mp in 2012.
Canceling into demon flip is risky and I agree garunteed damage is the way to go. I was just putting it out there as an option. But with all match ups with gouken you gotta play your opponent so sometimes it’s not bad to do if you can get away with it. Even better when it leads to the paintrain.
Tatsu isn’t bad to use after a jumpin> cl.st.mp>cr.lp. Using lk tatsu is another fadc shin sho setup where you don’t cross under. And after jumpin ct.st.mp> cr.fp> hado> fadc> lk. By the nature of tatsu always being char specific no matter what the set-up it’s always gonna have the risk with it. Ultra style risk 
Oh I sound brand new? Ok.
So you’re just randomly fishing for counterhits with no fucking purpose? And I sound new? With all the shit you talk about being able to beat everyone in the world with demon flip setups I would think you might have some sort of fucking counterhit setup into sweep like I do, but, I guess, I’m new.
Of course, never in any of your videos have I ever seen you hit confirm anything, but again, I’m new.
Or how you keep saying you are linking moves that ARE UNLINKABLE. But I’m new??
Dude you travel on your own fucking boat apparently. If you fish for counterhits cause it makes you happy that’s fucking great but there are practical uses to them that help you win.
I’d love to see videos of you doing all this shit you talk about. I can sum up your gameplan pretty fucking simply.
Demon flip or jump back all over the place like a rabbit hyped up on coke.
Land and sweep.
j.lk and backthrow.
Random ass palms that get blocked and lag covers your ass so you can counter.
fireball - Palm.
How’d I do for a newbie?
Oh and neutral jump tatsu on an opponent wakeup.
Seriously, get the fuck out of here with the shit you spew. You link cl.st.mk into a sweep or far st mk. really? REALLY? It’s not even fucking possible with a counterhit. New? You sound fucking new.
Keep making shit up and talking bad about japanese players who are clearly eons ahead of you. Anyone who doesn’t regularly post in the forum might be impressed or believe you, I know I’m not the only one that thinks you need to tone down all the bullshit.
But keep rocking the world with demon flip setups playa. I.E. jump back flip forward parry.
The balls on this one… Making shit up and calling me new. lol.
Edit: let’s not forget you throwing Sagat out of U2 on startup, thinking his yellow box that keeps you from passing through him was his throwable box. Not like hitbox vids been out forever and there is a link up top with explanations of all the colors.
New…
I cant read your post bro …what are you saying?
The cl.mk>sweep shit was with chun li and I was only able to do it 3 times in training off of dj.HP…I thought it was cool yet barely useful so I shared it with the homey 6 and the forum for discussion…discussion…discussion…
cl.mk>far.mk works and is char spec. no counter hit needed.
Your contempt for me is indicative of your fear of the unknown , your fear of change , as well as your blind allegiance to pride and ego.
More like my contempt for bullshit.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Gouken
Somehow you are taking a +2 on hit move and linking it to a move that has 7 frames startup.
Fuck out of here.