I’d rather you brush up your reactions and use LK.tatsu or EXtatsu. Chickenshit(wing) breaks armor. You can EXtatsu to escape the corner, yes. But you’ll be better off using Kongo in the corner because they get greedy and keep attacking with their normals. Doing so will teach them to be careful and change their plan of attack in the corner. My two cents, though. Even though I’ve been maining gouken since unlock, don’t rely on what I say too much. I’m not as good as the rest of the g-men here. You’ll be able to tell by comparing my post with theirs, being WAY more informative lol. So just make note, guys… My posts are my two cents lol
I LOL’d when I saw this… Now you know I know better.
AFAIK, chicken wing only breaks armor up close (1st hit?)…but I ex tatsu if possible. Ultra is another option. As far as using instant air ex tatsu to escape…it depends on your opponent’s reactions. You have no invincibility whatsoever. It can take them by surprise and catch them pressing the wrong buttons or motions or you can eat a reversal and end up back in the corner with less health, 1 less bar of meter, and on the defensive again. I’ve also had some luck doing it but going backwards…pushing towards the corner. Sounds counter-intuitive but if you can get it low enough it does great chip and push back and you can still push towards your opponent to gain a little room…if they duck after being chipped they get knocked down…but use this sparingly. Recovery sucks unlike Ryu’s ex tatsu with instant recovery bs.
Gouken fun fact #51
Cr. Hp will duck chicken wings
GFFact #52
Cr. Hk will duck chicken wings
Cr
I’ve noticed this too but the problem is that Fei is on top of you during your recovery frames most of the time which is very bad. Wiki says Fei’s recovery is 5+16 for light, 5+14 for med, 4+13 for heavy flying kick. Gouken’s recovery on cr.hp is 22 frames and sweep is 18 frames. Obviously, sweep is better to whiff but only leaves you at an advantage, and not a great one, if Fei does med or light flying kick and you do sweep at the perfect time. Takin, have you experimented with cr.lk? This only has 9 frames of recovery but I wonder if you need to be more perfect with your timing to duck the flying kick…
What does the 5+16 stand for anyway? Why is it not just 21?
Cr, lk actually shrinks his hit box better up close.
i wrote a thread revolving around crouching lk’s awesomeness…its the best overall duck hes got then ,low kongo then , cr mp generally speaking.
All goukens Cr kicks shrink box,actually 5 of his normals do this from crouch perhaps better than anyone in the cast…Ive tried to find ways to incorporate them in avoiding wakeup assaults on the old man.
Gouken fun fact # 50 is actually : cr.lk ducks tons of shit!
non block crouch up close will show you how much time you have to find a way under wing… as it doesnt hurt anything on startup, I mean there is literally a period of time where the hitboxes touch but no damage takes place …
Specifically the hitboxes move together well enough that I feel comfy throwing any cr lk , cr rh , vs fei for that effect…
IAM is correct that it (cr.lk )is applied better at more ranges…his head ducks the down to the first row on training wall…which is pretty fukkn low.
Cr.lk leaves you in odd spacing at times on a rh wing , or close ex, that you may look to punish, yet are too far away and eat “reversal ex…” anything…in jerk reaction response from fei…
Cr.fp works great from point blank and back a tad and perhaps more positions and pits you in great placement for palm punishes
I personally would advise using cr.lk for starters, essesntially feeling out feis tendencies up close , sweep and cr fp seem to be better applied when youre reading reversals really well and youre in "…them apples !?" mode…
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i wrote a thread revolving around crouching lk’s awesomeness…its the best overall duck hes got then ,low kongo then , cr mp generally speaking.
All goukens Cr kicks shrink box,actually 5 of his normals do this from crouch perhaps better than anyone in the cast…Ive tried to find ways to incorporate them in avoiding wakeup assaults on the old man.
Gouken fun fact # 50 is actually : cr.lk ducks tons of shit!
non block crouch up close will show you how much time you have to find a way under wing… as it doesnt hurt anything on startup, I mean there is literally a period of time where the hitboxes touch but no damage takes place …
Specifically the hitboxes move together well enough that I feel comfy throwing any cr lk , cr rh , vs fei for that effect…
IAM is correct that it (cr.lk )is applied better at more ranges…his head ducks the down to the first row on training wall…which is pretty fukkn low.
Cr.lk leaves you in odd spacing at times on a rh wing , or close ex, that you may look to punish, yet are too far away and eat “reversal ex…” anything…in jerk reaction response from fei…
Cr.fp works great from point blank and back a tad and perhaps more positions and pits you in great placement for palm punishes
I personally would advise using cr.lk for starters, essesntially feeling out feis tendencies up close , sweep and cr fp seem to be better applied when youre reading reversals really well and youre in "…them apples !?" mode…
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Feels like a million years since I last played SF4 and that’s because it has been. I haven’t played at all since Vanilla came out for PC. And Gouken still feels like the most unique character. Everyone else just feels off to me. Granted I’m a 3S player and it could be because he kinda’ has parries.
Basic Gouken questions from a scrub:
Good blockstring if you have them in the corner? Seems like stHP, LP Hadou, Sweep or tMP. If I’m close enough I could do stLP into LP Hadou.
I’ve seen a few gdlk Gouken’s do this: Backthrow, jMP, Sweep. I can only land the Sweep if jMP hits once as opposed to twice. Any other backthrow combos that are practical aside from dash in and Tatsu?
Good corner combo off of EX Senkugoshoha in the corner? I can follow up with MP Hadou and LP Senkugoshoha no problem, but two MP Hadou’s is pretty tight.
Why does no one use Senkugoshoha to bypass fireballs? Too risky or what?
a couple of jabs< cr.MP< LP. hadou
jab x3< cr.HP< LP. hadou
**cr.LK< LP. hadou x3 **
honestly i think he has A LOT. just hit up training room to find out whats your flavor
practice, and besides you can ONLY hit the sweep if dj.MP hits once.
any other combos aside from dash to tatsu…from a backthrow??? is that even possible?
you can BT<ex senku< U2
BT<LP. hadou< fadc U1
BT< LP. Hadou< sweep is the most practical, i think
ex senku< HP. hadou x3< U2
ex senku< HP. hadou< LP. hadou< sweep/ U1/ U2
ex senku< ex. senku< U2 (second ex senku tosses opponent up higher for an extra hit for U2, possibly a waste of a meter)
but ex senku straight into full animation U1 is the “best” since i has the least scaling and most damage
**Maybe risky for some players, it all depends on how good you are with gouken and reading fireballs. i senku through fireballs when i can to instead of using meter for ex demon flip **
I was going to say in regards to damage scaling. I like to keep it simple in regards to landing Ultra because the amount of damage scaling in SF4 is huge. I assume Denjin is subject to the same damage scaling but how does that effect stun?
One other thing: Does EX Divekick have more priority? Can it be AA’d as easily as regular flip into Dive?
IF THATA THE CASE, LESS IS MORE. EX SENKU TO ULTRA IN CORNER.
EX Flip is invincible first 25 frames and it auto tracks. If you are up close it offers more priority from a posistioning / avoiding most reversals. Other than that, they all have the same priority attack wise.
Okay, so the general gameplay is to play footsies and force them to either come at you or bait them and punish hard. I really wish the Flip into Dive Kick had more priority but I like the number of options Gouken has.
Question about resets and 50/50’s:
So you get them in the corner or you landed a sweep mid-screen. It seems like all you can do is crossup MK, Flip into Dive or Grab, or walk a little away and make it look like you’re going for the crossup but end up doing jHP. Or just stand there and go for parry if they do anything.
Anything I’m missing?
you can dj.LK<cl.st.MP<ex senku (or cr.HP< ex senku) and that in there with regular cross ups and they’ll get confused
Do you mean jLK, or delaying a crLK?
Why don’t a lot of people use cr.LK into EX Tatsu? Does good damage.
Because the chance of whiff and the character-specific stupidity makes it risky
Even though I need to abuse it more, don’t forget about counter hit to beat crouch teching after you knock them down. The best 2 IMO is lp palm and cl. St mp. You can get it by walking up to them or by jumping in early. Visit the safe jumping thread and you can get more detail, but you can set the computer dummy to jump and you can get the timing for wake up, safe jumps, ambigs, and the unblockable windows.
Just remember you can’t throw them on wake if they jump, so only for throws after they are on their feet if you want to throw.
Let’s talk about what I call the “Strawberry Shuffle.” He’s one of the smartest Goukens out there and yet he uses one particular series of moves in EVERY match. And it’s success rate is something like 80% (if not higher) from what I can tell. I personally try to mix in dash throw into my game but never get the success rate that PS does using the shuffle. I’ve tried different variations but players seem to read it better.
The shuffle itself is super simple, and usually goes like this: Safejump in, Delayed Crouch Tech (C.LK is blocked usually), C.LP, C.LK, Dash in, Forward throw.
So, I’m asking this to the bestiest best Goukens out there: Why does this work? Why don’t more people do it? Why does this particular series of moves seem to catch so many GREAT players off guard?
Here’s 2 examples. 1st one, is the standard shuffle, and the 2nd one, PS mixes it up by backdashing and then Neutral Jumping.
1:43
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36 seconds:
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