Thanks Chaotic :).
Hrmm thats a good question. I think it may be a good option, as the grab also beats one of his ex Punches also done just before. so if it avoids the head butt also that would be awesome. he can prob just back dash punish though.
GF Grab will make them all whiff except lp head butt-
Here are some other things to consider after land GF Grab vs. Balrog
-If you lk GF parry afterwards he will whiff head butt- all versions, if he does it outside of the reversal window to hit you, Gouken parries
-if you lk GF Dive kick afterwards he whiff head butt- all versions, there is a small window that he can use st. mp AA, or jump back and punch you for it, but he’d have to have great reactions or know what you were trying to do (don’t be predictable), however…
-if you use d+mk afterwards he will whiff- all versions (but the hit stun is shitty) (and this would beat his st. mp)
-if you cross up lk or mk he can auto-correct, but if you walk back a pixel or 2 and then do it, it’s almost impossible for him to autocorrect as by the time he would face the other side you will be hitting him and putting him in hit/block stun… I was able to beat it about 1 out of 20 tries or so to make sure I remembered correctly.
**** if you land GF Grab and he has 0 meter, he’s free to be frame trapped by a lp palm on his wake (it will beat all of his offensive wake options without meter) (EX Headbutt and Ultra will beat it, lp palm will beat the rest of his attacks with armour, as well as crouch tech and jump out) (I’m thinking about making a vid on this vs. the cast, since this is heavily overlooked)
Rogs head butt has a lot of recovery, so you can punish him on all of his whiffs…
hope this helps.
Fantastic tip, thanks 
What are the best followups for divekick? I don’t think even the deepest divekick can connect a st.mp so I am lost.
While on this topic best followup for crossup lk?
***I meant command divekick not df dk.
My preference on the dive kicks are:
- mk>lp palm (pushes them away and is quick)
- mk>cr.lk>df or sweep
- mk>lp hado>cr.mp>lp hado or df
- mk>throw
On crossup lk I pretty much only do it to tick throw
I’ve noticed something the week I’ve been playing ranked practicing on block strings, i’ve been getting A LOT of counter hits with cl.st.LP<cr. HP. Is this some frame trap? I’m really lazy so sorry if this has been discussed in another thread
Its THE frame trap for Gouken imo. I always do safe dick kick, cr jab x2, cr.hp, hado. From there you can fadc but all you will be able to land is sweep because everyone crouch techs and they will be in cr. hitstun. If they stand thrown and get blown up you can fadc sweep or my personal fav cr.lk, hk tatsu. I havent tested jab x1…you may be able to land a full combo. Will test tonight…
DUDE, I found myself doing the same thing. That and cr.jab x2, cr.mp. Get’s em everytime as they begin to walk forward/back or go for the crouch tech. I’ve been realizing how insane Cr.HP is though for pokes, it just seems to go through a ton of moves. I guess it has a lot of active frames? Not sure how the mechanics work. The trick for me now is just noticing that it connected and following up appropriately.
Also discovered that when you’re in the corner against frametrap heavy characters like Sakura, Cody, Cammy etc. S.HK can be really good for catching them by surprise once they push themselves to about 1 character length away. I usually follow it up with a HK demon flip parry to jump out of the corner. Been really trying to use this instead of HK instant air tatsu to escape. Tatsu keeps getting caught by reversals.
Hey another question: I’ve been using S.MP to punish whiffed moves, ie. Cody’s missed criminal upper, Sagat’s tiger knee, Bison’s flip kick move. I’m just having a ridiculously hard time following it up with MP palm. I’m pretty sure that’s the punish of choice. Anyone out here hit this punish consistently?
I guess I always have trouble with these combos when I first try em, so I’m gonna practice in the hyperbolic time chamber.
Yeah, I try and stay away from doing j.hk tatsu unless you’re godlike like Sun and can IAT it. The hurt box is freaking huge. Ryu can f.hp us out of it which is a horizontal move at about shoulder length and we’re way above his head.
I never use cr.hp as a poke because of the slowness. I strictly use f.st.hp because it beats EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. At the right distance I’ve seen it beat a dp from Ken and my buddy throw his stick lol. And it has so much hitstun behind it that if you hit someone on the tip you can sweep.
Codys Criminal Upper is -5, -8, and -10 for l, m, h respectively. I never know which is which so sometimes I do nothing and sometimes I sweep. I’ve noticed that all Cody’s backdash after a blocked one so that why I said sometimes because the push back on the move doesnt allow you to be close enough to catch it. Sagats TN I dont even try to punish, they always follow with throw or dp fadc so I just cr tech. Scissor kick, if he does the heavy you can sweep. Anything else and I dont think you can touch him.
I say sweep to all of these because I personally revolve my game around knock downs/safe dive kick. I have trouble doing f.st.mp, palm as well coupled with the fact that it would push the opponent far away from me which is what I personally dont want. I would say if you’re gonna do it push forward with the mp and then all you would have to do is qcf mp again to get palm.
Well I would say to do mp until your opponents dp’s you consistently. I rarely get dp’d after dive kick, deep or not. But personally when I go for deep dive kick I try and get the kick to cross up. If it crosses then the opponent gets hit and you can go into a combo. If it doesnt crossup, deep enough and Gouken will hit, they block and land on the other side and then you can def block string mp. If you land on the front side I would jab out or go for the cr.lp x1 or 2, cr.hp frame trap like we’ve been discussing in the past few posts. Or just keep it simple, jab, tick throw.
trust me my friend, you’re not the only one, the timming and the motion is kind of hard, it needs to be practice a lot, because if you rush it, you do overhead instead…all of cody’s criminal upper and ruffian kicks are punishable and sagat’s tiger knee too except for ex, but the space and other stuff makes it difficult…
lol I want a GIF of this playing infinitely.
Bored as hell at work:
This is more out of curiosity than anything else because I don’t really like SF4. I don’t like Ultras, I don’t like Reversal Mashing, and I don’t like dumbed down easy inputs and more than a few lopsided matchups.
With that said I always liked the character of Gouken, or more specifically the ideas behind him. When I played Vanilla way back when I was frustrated by the mechanics of SF4 and Gouken’s limited options at the time. So humor me:
It seems like the way to play Gouken is to control space with Fireballs and bait them to do what you want them to do. Would that be correct?
Most of his specials seem pretty bad and are too risky and you have to rely on the EX versions of Senkugoshoha, Counter, and Dive Kick.
Which Ultra is overall better? Is Denjin a good AA?
Denjin is not a good AA. But HP/MP hadouken, Denjin and an AWESOME AA. As far as which Ultra is better its just a matter of opinion. I feel like its 50/50 amongst us Goukens. Denjin has waaaay more applications and practicality but Shin Sho is one of the most powerful/and priority placed Ultras in the game. It all depends on what character you’re against at the moment. They’re both really really good for what they are/do and you cant really go wrong picking either one.
You’re right, Gouken is a character that controls space REALLY well. Really fast and far reaching normals and we have an angled fireball that we can delay and charge. So yeah, basically his gameplan is to throw fireballs and pokes to bait the opponent to jump or get knocked down. Once knocked down we have a ton of vortex options to keep the opponent down, guessing 50/50 on every attack. Our downfall is we dont have a sound DP like most of the cast. We have kongo which is wonderful but its a guessing game. EX kongo covers the whole body but it loses to armor breaking moves and throw. To make up for this Gouken deals a TON of damage and stun in combos.
All of his specials are godlike when used correctly so I’m not seeing what you’re seeing there. But I think it appears that way from the outside looking in. If you pick him up, you’ll see what I mean. There will be a rough patch after a few weeks…a breaking point if you will…of whether you want to stick with him or not. If you can make it through that, the clouds part and angels sing everytime you play.
i loved vanilla gouken, when his demon flip was an overhead. i hate his command demon flip, always will, but it’s really good. it IS true that ALL of gouken’s moves are risky, but that’s just it. he’s not somebody who you can just throw shit out there for free. it’s about anticipation and controlling your opponent. the more you use gouken, the more you know WHEN to use what you have. as for which ultra is better, IMO it’s all about your play style. since gouken’s ultras are completely different from each other, you have to revolve your way of playing gouken around it.
Where’s the frame data on this move? T_T Also, what is Gouken after a lvl1 Focus Dash forward?
And most importantly, I’m on a mission to find a suitable character to play against Fei. How does Gouken do?
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Gouken
Gouken can struggle badly against rush down characters since he can’t spam reversal, and Fei Long can out poke him.
How you deal with those 2 details will determine your success in the match up. My solution is always try to pace the match through hard knock down whenever possible, that way you can safe jump the shit out them and force them to make errors as you mix up from there.
Cr. FP is very good on beating out his Chicken Shit from afar, and if he’s not up close you can kongo almost everything he does.
Downside is… he has a command grab, and his frame traps are awesome, to add… he can poke into damn near anything he wants. He also has one of the best Focus Attacks and Forward Dashes on the game, which can be a tough task to keep him out. General strat is to zone him or rush him down through knock down, Fei owns at mid range since Gouken really doesn’t have anything he can poke into to yeild high damage or a knock down. Other than that, Gouken loses this match. 5.5 - 4.5 Fei Long and 6 - 4 Fei Long if your zoning breaks down. If you expect rekka, neutral jump can be very painful for Fei.
IIRC Balrog is Fei’s Krpytonite, as long as you are not doing mindless wake up head butts with him.
Thanks for the suggestion but Balrog is my last bastion… I hate that character so much. So bland and boring =( My game against Fei so far is to zone with fireball and I can kongo his Chicken Wings with some ease. – How’s ex.Air Tatsu as an escape from the corner?