Hey guys, I am a Juri player. I’m just curious how to escape goukens hyakishu (sp?) throw. His demon flip throw thing. I was playing against a Gouken earlier and he was doing a reset I think during his air throw that let directly to his demon flip and he’d throw me every time. Do I crouch? Jump?
If timed correctly the demonflip throw isn’t crouchable from a wakeup situation. From a reset situation you have all the time in the world to react. Easiest way to get out is to backdash. If he’s cancelling a demonflip from a normal you can jump up and swat him from the air. You can dash forward, you can do an invincible move etc. Best punish is probably dj.mp, cl.hp, ex-pinwheel.
Er sorry yeah, he was doing a BACK throw, then jumping up with a normal to reset me in the air, then doing a demon flip into grab which appeared to have been meaty right when I was landing from the air reset. I will try and backdash it next time. Thanks for the advice 
Who was playing the old man?
Ah, can’t remember unfortunately :<
Hi guys,
Juri main trying to make Gouken a decent alternative character for me. He isn’t too hard of a character to me. Him and Juri are extremely similar. The only thing I have trouble with is his fireball game lol. Since I don’t have to just release a button to have the fireball come out it makes me guess more than I want to with fireballs. Oh and ex fireball for Gouken is kind really dumb. But still very similar to Juri. I really like his damage and stun. I’m not exactly sure how some matchups should be played out compared to Juri. Overall I like Gouken and think he is a decent alt. Not the best alt but really fun for me.
If any Gouken’s want Juri experience you can find me on psn. Tr4gicLi0n_
Welcome to the club but are you asking a question here buddy? We can answer but truthfully I dont see one. Goukens EX fireball is ok. It loses to any double projectile but we can charge all of our fireballs to double using zero meter. We have the best fireballs/zoning out of all of the 40 some-odd characters in the game…I cant complain.
Nah no questions. Just sayin what I like and don’t like about Gouken. I might ask for matchup advice soon whenever I get away from Borderlands 2 and take time to get back on SF4.
Edit: Also I find the charge time for the two hit fireball to be annoying. If there are some setups for it off a knockdown I would love to know that. I havent seen anything of use yet.
Nothing is worse than feeling like you’ve gotten a lot better at combos/execution only to get destroyed by someone who’s just thinking way faster and strategizing better than you. Just fought a really good opponent (EG Priderock on PC) who played Akuma, Seth and a few others, and I just felt completely outclassed the entire time. Whenever I tried to go in I’d just get insta-punished. He knew exactly what I wanted, saw my gameplan, and read every move I was making.
Even if I landed a hit and followed up with safe jump, I couldn’t manage to get the timing right on the following CS.MP or CS.MK without eating shoryuken or just watching him backdash out. I have to learn option selects… that’s on me.
But then once he was in, the pressure was insane… tried to tech throws and I’d get shoryuken’d. Tried to wait for the shoryuken, get thrown. Overheads/ frametraps… I mean fuck… it’s got me really depressed. Makes me think why do I play this frail old character… and then he picks Gouken and just rocks with him. Going all out offense and I just couldn’t react fast enough… my defense is just… laughable.
When do you guys feel like you got better at defending against really good players? I still always feel like I’m getting bullied against competent opponents, even though I know what they are capable of. Maybe part of it is just knowing my anti air options at all times… I’m still hesitant to use C.MK. Also C.HP misses all the fucking time (probably my biggest pet peeve).
When do you feel like you became confident in your gameplan at all times? I am beastly at zoning and punishing average players who are too eager to go on the offense, but against players who are content to sit and wait, and then pick their moment to strike I just fall apart, crouch tech/tech at the wrong time and get murdered.
Man, I gotta say that I feel you 100% on this. And to be fair, if he’s not trolling and really is sponsored you shouldn’t be so down on yourself. I mean, sponsored players are sponsored for a reason right? Most are extremely good. And another point is that you were playing against Akuma and Seth. We all know how that can go versus really really good ones. But again, I feel you man. We dont have a DP but on the flipside I feel like we have all of the defensive tools needed BUT its just using those tools at the correct times. And thats why I personally feel Gouken is the best character in the game (yeah I said it!) but on the low end of the list also.
Take for instance, we have tatsu, cr.mk, cr.hp, st.hk, st.hp and kongo for anti- airs, but there is no one stop shop. They all are awesome but all are highly situational. I rush down normally but my gameplan usually when I’m facing someone super solid is I hado at half screen and keep hado’ing until I’ve pushed them far enough into the corner which makes players play differently. Hado, dash, hado, dash and repeat. The catch to this is that you need to be very confident in your anti-airing. You need to know that without a shadow of a doubt that if they jump over any one of those fireballs that you’re gonna smack them with something. I strictly use st.hp and ex tatsu as my AA unless the guy is on top of me. The hurtbox is freaking ridiculous and it does 120 damage while cr.hp only does 80. Be mindful though that it loses to any horizontal jump in ie. Cammy’s j.hk, Giefs j.hp, Kens j.hk. If you’re consistently AA’ing eventually they will be in the corner and you should feel more comfortable knowing that they are somewhat trapped. St.hk is godlike for anything above you.
Defense…lordy. The number one element of EVERYONES game that is the most undeveloped including mine. One thing I can say is that against good players you will get frame trapped once or twice a match so dont sweat it too much. Thats what good players do, (shrugs) they know how to mix you up with throws and frame traps. The way I practice my defense is to go into training, play Ryu on hardest and just defend for like 30 minutes at a time. Granted, its the cpu and you will get blown up because it responds to button presses but if you can successfully defend yourself in the corner for an extended period of time without getting blown up too much you will be progressing. Another is to use back dash. Use is sparingly but personally I say use it until your opponent can counter it. It helps me alot and I will do it until the person I’m playing punishes. Another is matchup knowledge. Dont push buttons against characters that will do crazy damage off of frame traps ie. Cammy, Seth, Akuma, freaking Cody and his bullshit, Viper, Rufus, Abel. And lastly and the thing that will help you the most out of all of these: I mained Akuma up until AE and my defense was horrendous. I had a DP and a freaking teleport, who needs teching and defense? Switched to Gouken and realized very quickly how much I was lacking in the department. So after I’d had enough I buckIed down, took three weeks…a whole three weeks…and told myself that I was gonna play at sweep range versus every opponent I played. When fighting, if we weren’t at sweep range I would walk forward until I was…no zoning, no fireballing, just playing at sweep range. This will do two things for you, HIGHLY improve your defense and also make your reaction time better. I lost 4000bp and 2000pp in the process, no bullshit. But I did it so that my defense would be solid up close and I wouldn’t be scared and nervous when fighting this way. It taught me how to AA like no other, made my reactions way better and now my defense is pretty decent. You will lose alot but its not about that. Its about getting better. Since then I’ve gained all that stuff back and way more. I fight offline now and just destroy people I couldnt before because they dont have as much of an avenue now when on the offensive. I gotta tell you man, I’m not the best Gouken in the world but that helped me tremendously. Long but hopefully this helped.
That might be the best advice on defense I’ve ever read. Really inspiring. I’m definitely going to do exactly what you did - playing in sweep range for weeks on end. I can see how valuable that experience will be. I really like your advice about training mode, fighting against the CPU as well. It’s really easy to just focus on offense in training, and then when you’re in a match end up panicking on defense or not knowing how to deal with another player’s strong defense.
I was considering make a separate thread asking if anybody ever tries playing a completely defensive Gouken where you just don’t move at all and intercept every attack perfectly with the correct normal… but that’s essentially what I have to do in practice to get confident in defensive situations. Great stuff… thanks Dek
No problem man. I had such a struggle moving from Akuma to Gouken. In the beginning, because I didnt know how to play defense, I would kongo all the time on wakeup but then people start reading it and then what? Blown up. Then I moved to EX flipping on every wakeup but then people would read that also and then what again? So like I said, I just buckled down, told myself I would play up close and not throw a single fireball. DO throw fireballs up close though because it will advance your AA’ing which is a section of defending…just dont try and zone with them. Just stay in the pocket poking and defending. You will lose a lot because you’re not trying to win but its ok. You will come out a much better Gouken and player. Glad I could help.
Hey, what platform are you on? If you’re on 360, we should run some.
I’m on PC unfortunately. Thinking of getting an Xbox soon though so I’ll definitely let you know when I get one.
Another question: Any tips on learning when to use Close standing HK? I always seem to get hit with some ambiguous cross up only to realize a second later “Oh! that would have been a perfect time to use HK!” When did you start using it regularly? I see all the good Goukens use it in great ways. Sometimes they’ll even dash in on a jump-in and get under the opponent and HK them.
Tbh I dont even use this as much as I should. But where I really really learned how to use it was playing the mirror in here with these guys. Because, seriously, no one is ever right above your head and you’re actually standing. If someone is crossing you up its gonna be on your wakeup. This of course is minus Bisons Devils Reverse/Head Stomp or being in the corner versus Juri - for some reason they like n.jumping when pressuring in the corner. But playing against these guys made me pick it up because Gouken can normal and cancel into his gf options. I found out the hard way that st.hk stuffs throw, kick and parry because of the two hits. After I adopted it I noticed that alot of my other opponents would block string me, fake a tick throw and try and crossup and before discovering this I had a really tough time with that. I would parry but the smart ones would catch on and empty jump crossup and throw me. This nullifies all of that. Its only 40 damage but its more of a psychological thing on your opponent in them not being able to try any tricky business lol.
Thanks that’s really helpful.
Another question: Is there a list of characters or criteria for characters who get hit by backthrow > EX palm > Denjin? I know it hits on Shotos and M. Bison… any others?
Sorry man lol, I honestly have no idea. I dropped Denjin a long time ago. I would think it would hit on every body but since you’re questioning it here I’m guessing that you’ve had it not work a few times. I dont do shit at work so I’m always in this forum reading, studying, trying to get better and I dont think I’ve seen such a list yet.
One thing about cl.st.hk is that the activation box for it is right above your head. I went through a tough time for a while with people jumping in on me and me recognizing it and immediately pushing the button. You will get st.hk if you do that and get comboed. You have to wait until they’re right over you for it to be active. Dont worry, it has 4 frames of startup so its really fast and will always connect.
Dek: Why did you drop Denjin? I just started using it and I like it way better, especially for the anti-air fireball followup.
Question: Is there a list of characters that you have to do true blockstrings on (ie: Use CS.MK instead of CS.MP after divekick and jumpins)? I know its all the shotos, but Gen was doing his EX upkick through MP…so there have to be others.
Back throw - EX.Palm(2hit) - Denjin works on…
Ryu, Ken. Akuma, Gen, Dan, Sakura, Oni, Dhalsim, C.Viver,
Dictetor, Cammy, Evil Ryu, Zangief, Claw, Feilon, Hawk,
Guile and Sagat.(Guile and Sagat needs to input EX.palm quickly)
For Ibuki, Gouken, Boxer, Blanka, works only when throw these right to left.
Dude if you only knew, I used to be the biggest U2 advocate in here. Its sooo useful. U1 you can only use in very specific situations and I hated that. I mean awesome against Akuma air fireballing from fullscreen, can punish Hakans Oil Shower on reaction, can punish Blanka Balls, T. Hawk Condor dives, OS’ing teleports, can ultra after a simple mp or hp hado. Oh, some people dont know this but you can punish a blocked sweep from Akuma and Ryu also. But the damage is horrendous raw. Its only REALLY good damage wise after ex palm. Everything else? Fadc’ing a palm, fadc’ing kongo…relatively no damage. We wont even talk about backthrow. And it stuns yes but I can hit a reset on you and can do the same.
So I went into training and started figuring out clever ways to land U1. Used correctly its such a huge threat. I’ve been trying to work on punishing better because thats Goukens strength and I want to maximize that. And man does Shin Sho punish hard. So I have ways I can combo into it, OS’ing it, punishing wiffed moves and backthrow and its been working out really well.
Maaaan I OS’d U1 on a safe dive kick yesterday on a Viper. She had about 60% life and I had 25-30%. She did her ex ground pound thingy for the invincibility, U1 activates and damn near killed her. She woke up and I chipped her with a fireball lol. U2 has tons of uses and practicality but U1 just hits so hard and if used correctly is the better ultra imo. I used to love landing a full Denjin after a stun though. They always think its over and they’re gonna hit the ground, nope…RESET!!!