You need to go to training. Practice the sweep follow up after 1 hit j.mp. You want the sweep to hit when they are just above the floor. Too soon or too late and you whiff. Same with any other follow up normal. I like to use st.mp or jab and cancel into flip or dash in throw. You can also follow 1 hit j.mp with a lk or ex tatsu.
After two hit j.mp, you can follow up with what sunsun said but you usually need to be hitting them with the mp as you are falling to get the follow up to connect because you land earlier and have time to jump and attack.
Set your training dummy to jump or record it doing a jump in attack and practice this as it is a pretty important thing to take your Gouken to a higher level. Experiment with the timings and it should make sense pretty quickly.
I disagree. Gouken’s focus attack is pretty good because it hits a good distance away and level 2 is pretty safe on block. FADC canceled with backdash is fast enough to keep you out of harms way most of the time. I alt akuma and I can’t get use to his FA because he moves backwards…it totally throws off my timing when trying to focus fireballs are even focus canceling something seems harder to do with him. It’s just play style, really.
Best focus I think goes to Hakan, and Seth’s is strong too.
It hits the standard-distance away, if you ask me. And if you compare it to, say, Ryu’s, Ryu’s hits straight while ours tilt slightly upwards and consequently whiffs on some moves that has the opponent crouching, such as Blanka’s slide. Having used that example, my point still stands that Ryu has an easier time hitting Blanka as he recovers, while we have to wait that moment longer - not that this is a great deal, as I know this, but it will happen in matches in the future that I will release my FA and see it whiff because the opponent was too low.
I’ve dashed up on Akuma and gone for a throw, only to see him FA and** automatically** move out of the way, while charging his attack. Fucking annoying.
If he has a harder time FAing fireballs, it’s negligible, in my opinion, and, that Infiltration showed it’s actually very possible, in his match against Daigo, anyhow.
I agree that we have a good forward-dash, but the thing is that anytime we pressure with FA, we have to be on point as the opponent is mashingboth throw-techs, and crouching attacks that they can combo to a knockdown. I don’t think we have frame-advantage on neither a lv.1 nor lv.2 FA, but I think it’s even, and then the best we can do is time the cl. MK perfectly, while they can repeat their two magic buttons.
Ryu’s and Gouken’s look pretty much the same to me.
Our FA has above average distance, Im pretty sure, if only the slightest. I can name pretty much half the cast that has shorter than Gouken does off the top of my head.
We’re +3 on block for lvl 1 FA. +6 for level 2. It’s a true blockstring if you time cl mk perfectly. They can’t mash through it. lvl 2 and you have a frame trap for huge damage.
yeah, it looks the same. I guess it’s the fact that a mistake on Gouken’s part is so costly, that any whiff or failure will feel like a huge burden the moment it incurs.
I stand correctde on the frame-data… Guess I need to improve my timing o_O
Wait. You must have meant 0 at lv.1. We cannot possibly be at +3 :wtf:
Thanks for the response, I was able to get it now, I was jumping as soon as gouken recovered from back throw, I delayed the jump a little and now the sweep connects.
I’ve been following up hard knockdowns on Shotos, and 4frame reversal characters with cross up J.LK to stuff Shoryuken, and noticed I’m getting into a ton of tech situations. Like 20 per match if the opponent is aware of my grab game. It also happens a lot on safe jumps, where I’ll do CS.MP > Kara throw, or C.LP, C.LP, Throw.
What are some options when I know I’m going to be in a tech situation? I’ve seen use of LP Parry to stop Crouch tech and NJ HP to catch grab. Any other tactics you guys use?
Well personally, the first thing I do in a match is figure out what the opponent techs with. So do a jump in, cl.st.mp and immediately jump over and do a cross up j.mk or n.j.hp. If the crossup or hp hits, great, go into a combo. But while in the air, pay attention to what the person tech’ed with…cr.lk, cr.mp or just throw. So the next time you get in that situation you can use the appropriate kongo (I’ll cover reg throw in the next paragraph). After you kongo them twice or so they will stop teching and thats when you yourself start tick throwing. As the match progresses they will ultimately become unsure of whether you’re going to counter or throw and will try and find other means of escaping. Most of the time people will do one of three things: reversal, backdash or backwards diagonal jump. You read and punish accordingly by blocking (for the reversal), sweep for the backdash and maybe countering the jump back by f.dashing and ex tatsu’ing.
Another thing you can do is frame trap. Jump in (and by jump in I’m referring to safe dive kicks…dont go just jumping in randomly like a madman), dive kick or regular, then cr.lp, cr.lp, cr.hp into whatever you like. The cr.hp has 6 frames of startup and will blow up regular throw and ANY tech option other than reversal. Just remember that everyone is different and will use different tech and escape options. As soon as you start countering one option they will switch and use/do something else when in that “throw” situation. So just read…adapt.
SN: To get a little deeper on the sweep to catch backdash, you can OS the sweep. So cr.lp, cr.lp+cr.hk will net you a successful OS. If they stand still the cr.lp, cr.lp chain over rides the cr.hk and thats what you get. If they backdash the cr.hk over rides the cr.lp and sweep is what you get. To REALLY cover all bases you combine this with the frame trap and you’re golden. So cr.lp, cr.lp+cr.hk, cr.hp into whatever…hado, fadc…whatever you like. This will successfully OS a backdash AND frametrap any tech or throw option. Just watch out for those mashers! Hope this helped.
EDIT: For resets with j.lk I use cl.st.mp, sweep…it works
There’s always the option of trying to stay ahead of that tech grab guessing game, coming from the early days with this setup I would get into a lot of tech bs too. Eventually I started playing with that safe jump/not so safe jump window, by giving shotos the impression I “floated” the setup thus leaving myself open to reversal, in reality I was catching the Srk with an ambiguous j.lk forcing a reset and a new set of options.
Deks edit covers some standard options for the reset options.
I was merely getting at, when you’re certain an Srk type reversal will be attempted , let them bust it,reset it and style on em!!!
Ahh gotcha. What’s the best way to practice the timing? Have you seen any videos containing the ambiguous J.LK stuff? I’ve done it before but a lot of the time I’m just trading, especially against Ken. I’ve noticed ProudStrawberry (one of the Goukens I watch religiously) barely ever uses this kind of trickiness. Seems to stick with the double fireball on shoto wakeup. Bullcat will do one occasionally, and Keike Desora seems more risky but unrefined with his wakeup pressure.
I know you uploaded a bunch of videos recently takin. Any examples of your wake up pressure spring to mind?
Here’s the view from the window of the 6th floor of the Texas Book Depisitory where history changed forever…oops wrong thread … This is the window you attack as you can see at about it’s deepest the 8 o clock and 4 o clock positions are great targets for locking in on, but usually real meaties happen a bit after 9 and 3 o clock, give or take.
For the ambiguous j.lk u seek use this window bUt drop the j.lk at the 11 and 1 o clock positions against the wakeup Srk this will give you the reset Dek and I are reffering to. Give or take a half hour on those 11 and 1 o clock attack times btw at any given time for true ambiguity.
I’m referring to the 2nd round also.
For standing opponents sweep>pixel walk forward or backward>j.lk>c.mk>l.palm for a pretty airtight combo after meaty setup.
Other than that there’s occasional glimpses in a lot of my vids. Subscribe to me at the tubez or pull a skyakuma and cop an Xbox if ur not on live already…! Yeeeeeeee!
what works for me is to g.flip grab then (input g.flip during recovering animation to hide input movements) MK g.flip kick. since i’m directly above them during g.flip they try to mash dp, jump out, dash out of the way they just get stuffed or whiff whatever anti-air they use giving me the free sweep to more resets. i’ll post a compilation later this week. maybe i’ll be of use to you guys for once lol.
I heavily rely on sweep>gflip mainly utilizing hk gflip about 70% of the time. The closer we push the opponents back to the corner then comes mk an lk gflips respectively. The more you play with that window as you pixel walk front or back the more ambiguous setups become till your home free walking that line of ambiguos and ingenious…
You may notice from my vids this is where I feel most comfortable since creating my foundation from this hard knock down range. Use mk if you are more comfortable w frontside safe pressures etc or for very close knock down range.
Pixel walk and hk flip will get you to the promise land in time