New Goukens: Ask a question get an answer

Use gf grab, empty jump in, or os them.

Option Select sweep/MP Palm (depending which char/how good their backdash is) will put a stop to that immediately. Basically input the attack right before you land, if the divekick is focus’d, the move will come out. If the divekick is blocked, the blockstun freeze will make it so that the timing for the sweep/palm is too late so that it doesn’t come out. Practice in training mode for the correct timing.

Thanks for all the responses, I’ll try the OS in training.

I do find it hard to stop people from rushing me down. If i’m controlling the pace of the game I do ok, but if i’m getting rushed down I tend to fall apart. Is like since i’m gouken they go all in on me.

And anti airing close jump ins, the ones that land kinda in your head ate also giving me trouble.

When Bullcat whiffs the command DK and uses U2 to catch the back dash, that’s not an option select is it?

He’s not pushing anything else that I can see on his inputs. Does he just buffer the Ultra and on reaction press 3 x PPP? That’s what it looks like anyway.

Characters who can spam armor breakers especially are indeed a pain to stop their rushdown. It’s all about being patient, getting a good read, and applying the correct kongo or normal. Use lp+lk+mk for your crouching os teching, it shaves 1 frame off the activation and gives you a good hitbox against dive kicks and airborne overheads.

standing close hk is a good antiair for close jumpins. It has lots of above-your-head active frames and comes in in 4 frames. The only obvious problem with this antiair is the “close” requirement. If you read the distance wrong, you’ll be eating a full combo.

Its not all that hard to punish backdashes at certain distances with U2. Im sure he just reacted to what he saw.

I think it is. U2 is usually the max punish OS option against things like focus, backdash, and teleports.

These questions are sort of directed towards Black-Toof but could benefit others I think. Been watching his Gouken commentary series and couldn’t recommend it more highly.

  1. Just started using Ultra 2 this week. Don’t know why it took so long. I’m using pad and find it extremely difficult to accurately execute Ultra 2 every time. Often, an EX- Demon Flip will fly out in a match. Is there any advice you can give as a fellow pad user to getting Ultra 2 when you want it? Been trying to make sure my thumb starts the motion in the down position…

  2. Related question: I can see how spinning the stick 10x to get the fastest version of Ultra 2 would be feasible with an arcade stick, but on a pad it’s incredibly difficult. I managed to do it a few times in training but no where near as consistently as necessary for doing it in a match. Are there any situations that spring to mind where you absolutely would need to use the fastest speed? Is there a trick to clocking in 10 rotations on a pad?

  3. One of the favorite safe jump options for Gouken is Forward Throw > Dash > MK Demon Flip > Press kick button ASAP. I’ve been trying this for some time and every 3rd or 4th time it seems like I’m hitting the ground early, whiffing the opponent entirely and leaving myself open for throws etc. From what I’ve read, to get the safe jump there can’t be any frames in between when the moves are executed, which I’m pretty sure I’m doing… am I understanding how to do this safe jump correctly?

  1. you need to spend more time in the air and jump a bit later.

  2. If you switched to using the palm of your hand you might be faster, just a thought im on a stick so idk.

  3. get a stick

Hai there :slight_smile:

1) SSF4 does have shortcut’s allowing you to skip the down notation on various specials. So there shouldn’t be any major issue there.
If it is indeed the fact your not inputting it correctly then I’m not sure what to say… do it properly? haha. (I think I just do: 2,3,2,3,6 (Using numpad directions)

But seriously, There might a chance your misunderstood and you are inputting it correctly but still getting EX-DF.
If there’s a fireball on screen(of yours) you can’t do your Denjin and it reverts to a EX-DF.
Often after a EX-Hado, you’ll do it a lil’ early and the 2nd fireball hasn’t gone off-screen yet. Do you think that’s a possibility?

2) Well, mah boi!, You’ll often want full speed, off of a EX-Palm > Denjin, if you do your Denjin asap + Full Speed + hold for a short period, you’ll get 1 extra hit causing more dmg and stun. This requires timing.
Another use is to anticipate an opponents fireball and react Denjin Fullspeed to counter + Followup.(On slower Shotos. Not Guile…)

I believe 8 rotations is all that’s needed to get Maximum Speed, and I doubt they have to be full rotations. (I would need to check)
I usually just spaz on the dpad from the get go. You could try changing to the joystick on the controller but ehhh.

(I just got my pad out and had a go.)
I seem to just place the middle of my thumb(where your fingerprint spirals too) in the middle of the cross - As if your pressing an imaginary button in the middle, and then moving it up and around, I think I may hit more up left notations than down right.

3) I think you misunderstand a little, it’s not that your inputs can’t have any frames between them but that the ‘safe jump process’ can’t differ in total frames.
If you do everything as soon as you can you’ll end up not hitting them like you said.
There’s a natural rhythm to it.
If you just relax yourself a bit and it should work.
So just dash and DF and dive without trying to keep it asap. (Hopefully that’s good advice haha, I’ve never tested this advice on someone before :P)

A last point, because I don’t want my info to seem wrong, or you to think your doing it wrong. 3Frame reversals can’t be safe jumped (Ryu,Ken,Akuma,Oni…)
And some characters require you to actually wait a bit longer like Adon who gains 1F invincibility extra (so your more likely to miss and be grabbed but he was a 5F reversal so it’s back down to a 1F gap :open_mouth: Ouch!)
And other characters wake up slower/quicker than others do.
Cammy & Guile are good ones to test on I think.

Cheers!
Tell me how it goes.
Matt. (☞゚ヮ゚)☞

if you’re using the ps2 controlller (like me :D) you can set both the d-pad and the analog stick as useable. I usually use the d-pad, but when i spin i use the analog stick

:slight_smile: The PS3 pad are both usable anyway I’m 99.9% sure.

I should get a PS2 pad, I want to go to Evo next year, and PS3 pads are ‘bad M’Kay’.
Although I saw several people using them, did they change their mind and have de-sync stations instead?
/derailed

I kept getting the same thing on stick cause it was registering the kicks before the forward input. Slightly delaying when I press the kicks helped insure the forward input comes through :slight_smile:

Thanks all those answers were actually really really helpful. Fixed all three problems. Getting my technical skills back up! But, just got back from a 2 week break from the game and I am so rusty/ awful in ranked matches it’s pathetic. sigh…

Cammy has a different wakeup timing compared to others characters I think.

I’ve been getting bodied by intelligent use of Focus Attacks lately. As soon as I’m out of long distance zoning range, Gouken’s getting dropped to his frail old man knees. Been trying to use C.MP > Fireball and jabs, but whenever I’m in footsies range of Shotos, Fei Long, Cammy, Adon, Abel… I’m just getting crumpled and then eventually destroyed because Gouken has so little wake up options.

Any tips to avoid getting destroyed by Focus?

On wake up your options are: Kongo, ex tatsu, ultra, ex flip, ultra (denjin especially), backdash (I think backdash works vs some characters and doesn’t against others depending on the range of the attack…think Oni focus vs Gief focus)…ohh and block.

Neutral standing (footsie territory): Palm…palm…lots of palm. If you are fighting, let’s say, a focus happy E.Ryu, he is going to cut that shit out fast if you start throwing out well placed/well timed palms once you notice that, for example, every time he dashes forward he then focuses. Try canceling a cr.lk into lp.palm and see what happens instead of cr.mp xx hado. Or even cr.lk xx lk.flip can punish or at least avoid a some focus attacks. You can also focus backdash and you’ll be safe most of the time.

If you are playing someone good, chances are that trying cr.mp xx hado is going to get you hit by a level 1 or 2. Also, if you are chucking plasma up close, stop. Stop trying to raw fireball someone while in their focus range. If your opponent sees that as a pattern you are going to get focus crumpled or ultra’d or both. Think of your footsies in terms of a scale…you can use the slower moves further away and use the faster ones the closer you get…

I’m getting screwed by the Focus Attacks too.

I think the best thing to do, is charge your own FA when you see one, release it after the opponent, or dash back and make use of the invincibility frames if the opponent charges to lvl. 3.

But I don’t know if the backdash-invincibility frames outlast the hit-frames of the opponent.

Other than that, you can try to footsie more with comboed light attacks, and not expose yourself with a slower attack like sweep, or cr. MP->Fireball.

You can also EX Flip, but the opponent might charge for just half a second and dash back or forward, so you have to decide by your gut-feeling.

As I said, I face difficulties too when we both charge FA, and I dash back early, only to arrive still within range for the opponent’s FA, and take the hit.

If you anticipate a FA when the opponent might anticipate a sweep, you can also do LP Palm, but maybe two cr. LP or one cr. LP and one cr. LK is better…

But Gouken’s FA is poor, IMO. Akuma’s moves him back a good deal while charging, and has more range on hit (I think), and others just dash back a great distance and also have the speed to recover and quickly spam something new.

I’ve seen on videos that you can sweep after back throw, j.mp. But for the life of me I can’t get the setup to hit, or any follow up after a one hit j.mp after back throw.
Also, what can I do after a two hit air to air j.mp?

You can neutral jump HP or diagonal forward or backwards jumping HK. Or U2.