New Goukens: Ask a question get an answer

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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I’m not really a “new” gouken but I’ve got some questions that would probably level up my gouken a bit.

  1. When comboing into EX Senkugoshoha, do you prefer to use the cl. HP or link cl. MP into cr.HP?
  2. After a back throw, I love to go for the 1-hit j.MP into sweep. Is there anything else I can do to give me a decent oki?
  3. What beats Gouken’s punch ender for his demon flip? I never use it but there are some places I could probably be using it.
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I think there may be an OS for EX IAT using rh and either mk or lk, or maybe some type of negative edge self-cancel, not too sure, but I have seen the animation cancel to tatsu numerous times

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  1. Ideally you want use cl.st.hp into EX Palm. Most of the time if you can get that combo it comes off of a jump in whether it be standard, cross up or dive kick. If someone throws an ill advised fireball or something and you KNOW the jump in will hit just go straight into cl.sh.hp so you dont risk dropping the link. If you’re safe jumping or baiting and you’re not entirely sure if the kick will hit or not just immediately do cl.st.mp for hit confirm and go into it.
    2.Another after backthrow is j.mp one hit, st.cl.hp into lk or mk gf. Lk flip will net you an easy gf throw or you can parry to bait specific reversals. Mk flip kick will put you in position to stuff any dp from any shoto and will most likely make any other reversal from any other character completely whiff. Also you can just do the two hit j.mp and immediately lk gf delayed kick. The delayed kick delays his landing animation and most of the time the opponent will wake up throw teching which will net you a full combo. You can probably only get that off maybe once a fight though lol. If you’re mid screen or closer another is j.mp one hit lp palm. It will automatically put the opponent in the corner and we all know thats where Gouken is king. You can begin fireball pressure and you and them are at a distance to where if they jump over any you can EX tatsu. Another is backthrow, delayed cr.hp hk gf kick. This takes practice but you can actually get the divekick to crossup which will net you a full combo.
  2. Any armor breaking move or any “reversal” breaks the gf parry. NEVER do it on wakeup. Whatever the opponent throws out, if its a special move will break it because its classified as a reversal. If you’re going for oki and wanna do it on wakeup, delay it for a few frames and do it. I do this specifically against Ryu and Cammy because their DP is only one hit. So you net a knockdown, wait for him/her to begin their wakeup animations off the floor and THEN do it. By the time you get to them, their dp wont be in “reversal” status anymore and you will completely parry. Also, any two hit move beats the parry. So Guys EX DP, Ken, Oni, E. Ryu’s dp’s, Deejays godlike dp…our parry only is able to parry one hit so be wary. Hope this helped. Give’em Gouken hell.
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well put DEK!

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hm okay thanks

i have a few problems with my execution too. most notably when i tried to do some stuff that bullcat does… something that he does often is backthrow and walk forward to st. hp into demon flip dive kick. couple of questions… how does this flip kick shenanigans work? Why does it always hit people when i do something like back throw into j. mp into flip? basically is it something i can rely on often to connect? second question is how do i get it to cross up? for now all i know is that the backthrow st.hp hk flip crosses up on hakan (because he is default computer for me in training mode), but in real matches i almost never get the cross up, sometimes landing completely behind them and missing and getting grabbed, or having it not cross up at all. Is it not possible? if it’s character specific, and i just do hp into the kick (without backthrowing), is it the exact same distance?

I have also tried to do this same set up with mp cr.hp into the flip kick, but this is where some weird stuff happens. I look at the inputs and i only press TWO punches (not mashing punches or anything), one for the mp, and one for the cr.hp, but for some reason half the time a hp palm comes out… and that’s without plinking. When I plink i get a lp palm (and i usually plink for that link). how do i get the kick to register?

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You can always parry. Such a powerful tool underused. Seriously you will usually see the hk from a mile away and parry will always beat it.

Also people any tips on getting 1 hit mp after back throw. Its sooooo troublesome for me.

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wait to press mp as opponents body is at or below your your head or eye level

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I used to main Gouken in vanilla SF4, but left him after a while. I’m trying to get back to him now in v2012 and find him a lot better than before.

I do have a lot of questions

  1. What’s a good blockstring for hit confirming that’s tight enough so that I don’t get DP’ed out of it and allows for canceling into ex palm?

  2. I’ve seen it on videos but haven’t been able to get it to work, what’s the setup for the ambiguous crossup dive kick? When I try it I’ll always land on front out always miss the opponent and eat a normal.

  3. Does the back throw, j.mp, f.s.hp into gouken flip shenanigans work on all characters? Last night I couldn’t get the f.s.hp to hit balrog.

Sorry for all the questions, I do have some more but I’ll reserve them for later.

Thanks.

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Hey. Fei and Sagat mainer since forever but I’ve taken up Gouken about a month back as an alt because he’s good fun to play.

The EX Dive kick, do Gouken players use this? I played a Gouken mainer today and he would throw this out quite a bit, especially on wake up. I couldn’t see any advantage he was getting apart from burning his meter like a mofo “online” style. I watched him for a bit in the endless rotations but I didn’t really learn much apart from st.mk seems useful in mid range footsie’s.

So far the only thing I’ve been using meter for …

  1. EX palm in combo’s
  2. EX parry on obvious hit confirms/frame traps.
  3. EX hurricane as AA only.

Also do you guys look at vids and dish out advice? I could throw a few up.

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1 The only hit-confirm to EX Palm is close MP, crouching HP. If you want something really easy, go with cl. MP, cr. HK.

2 After a forward throw, you can walk forward for about two full steps, do HK Flip, and the dive-kick will beat out most Shoryukens. After sweep, you can usually land a smiliar dive-kick, too. Try the first one, and experiment from there? :slight_smile: It should give you some idea of how it works…

3 You usually need to use MK Flip in this setup. It’s rarely guaranteed to work, I think, but it’s useful if the opponent isn’t prepared for it.

1 There is also cl. LK to cl. MK. Check it out :slight_smile: You can cancel the MK to LP Palm, or something.

Yes, we use the EX Dive whenever we are desperate! We also use EX Tatsu on our wake-up sometimes, and eat a devastating punish.

Lesson one! Refrain from doing either!

:slight_smile: Not ever, but the EX Dive kick can be punished with sweep, and it will reset the situation you tried to EX Dive kick from. I use it sometimes if the opponent isn’t at point blank, and doesn’t look like he’s going to be. Then I may EX Flip and kick or throw. It’s also useful at full-screen, against a fireball. It actually has many uses, mainly because of its invincibility, but wake-up isn’t one of them, really.

I think you use EX meter well. As “eddieW” on these forums has pointed out, the Super also has a lot of uses. It can punish moves that otherwise would be safe against Gouken, and consequently also abused against Gouken. If there is something that a character spams against you, you can look up the frame-data of that move, and see if Gouken’s 3-frame, long-range (HP version) Super can punish it on block.

Hey. Cr. HP is the best anti-air among the non-EX Tatsu moves. Cr. MK is also great. They complement each other, as in if one wouldn’t work, the other might have.

Another anti-air is forward-jumping MP cancelled to air-Tatsu. Some characters can jump in unpredictable ways, and result in avoiding the EX Tatsu. If you jump at them when you see them jump at you, you have them already beat.

As for having to block Dan’s rush-down, or Sakura’s, I don’t have any tips prepared right now, but later, hopefully :slight_smile:

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Is j.mk or gf into dive kick, cl.mp safe?
I was looking to the frame data and data for the jumping attacks is missing.

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exflip on wake is good for avoiding/punishing an srk fadc or a chip-out. Yes, you run the risk of wasting an ex. It’s all about how confident you are in your read.

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I use ranked for practice, I use Goukens wakeup as practice for my EX flip and gflip execution, and for several other things from that point on , say to add to my internal database of reads from that particular scenario , hitbox morphing , evasion practice…

I love me some gflip…

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i do the same thing. you’ll RARELY see me in training mode unless i’m trying to pick up another person. but other than that i’ll be in ranked, but lately i’ve been in endless lobbies so i can practice going “all out” and seeing what to do and what not to do vs other chars. in ranked, it’s my practice mode for playing smart since i have “precious points” on the line lol.

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Thanks for the reply’s. I guess I should just keep asking then since you guy’s seem cool. I played Gouken for a while last night so a few things came up in experimentation.

The EX Palm. I’ve pulled this off as an auto correct (habit from playing Sagat) on reaction when going for EX counter to hit on the other side after an opponents jump in. Is this legit? or am I just catching them in landing frames trying to score a throw/hit low? The start up doesn’t seem fast enough so I think I may have answered my own question!

The command dive kick? Thinking about it now, it might be useful to counter slides, does this get used?

Frame traps - Do you guy’s use Goukens close st.hk as a frame trap like Ryu players? If not what’s a couple of basic frame traps? I guess cl.mp seems like it could be used like Fei longs on wake up opponents to blow up tech but how about in strings?

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Can you combo off of a command dive kick (Medium Kick at the height of your diagonal jump in) with Close Medium Kick into LP Palm? I know you can combo the command dive kick into full punish if it hits below the opponents waist, but I’ve seen some examples, like the video below, where it looks like its combo-able off any hit.

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Perhaps somebody else can answer these better

I don’t really focus on frame-traps, but if you mean frame-perfect traps, I know you can do cl. LK and then cr. MK, which has one open frame between them if done perfectly.

Cl. MP is generally a good frame trap. You have lots of options after it

Command dive kick is something I personally don’t use. But it certainly has its uses, and it is good against slide-attacks, exactly in the way you imagine it. Go for it

Also: I’ve seen “Shine” on Youtube, do like two jabs, then cr. HP followed by a combo, which is also a frame-trap you can look into

It combos there because Cody was crouching, so the kick consequently hit pretty low. The hit-stun is shorter than a normal medium attack. It’s more akin to that of a light attack, I think

That move is good for two things: changing target (such as a fake cross-up), and changing landing or hit moment. It also hits like a normal jumping attack, so it can’t be blocked crouching, unlike the Flip dive kick

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command dive kick is also great for throwing off your opponents anti air normals timing

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What do I do against people that focus back dashes frequently on wakeup to avoid my gf.k or j.mk pressure.

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Time and place your attacks differently , wait for the right hard knockdown opportunity.