I was going to edit it but was like fuck it lol. It works the same lol
Do you have a list of the Kongo short cut bugs?
From what testing so far has revealed to me, typical shortcut for dp is:"Any Forward, Any Down, Downforward(actually the last one might be Any Down or Forward as Forward, DownForward, Forward also get’s me a DP).
The shortcut bug seems to add to the possible shortcuts and the most famous one is ofcourse Back, Forward, Back resulting in Kongo.
What I think the bug does is change Kongo(and Fei’s Flame kick, no other reverse DP’s seem to have it)'s shortcut to:
Any Back(upback, back or downback), Any Down or Forward(downback, down, downforward, forward or upforward), Any Down or Back(you get the idea, this last one makes me unsure if my theory is 100% correct that all the possible combinations work, but believe me, it’s a lot of them)
After teching a throw who is on frame advantage?
You’re at even.
NO, Gouken is as he stares them down into fear up close.
But due to our generally absent startup advantage are trechnically at a disadvantage vs a large volume of cast.
This answered my question, but I kinda knowed it already.
Does anybody know the startup of the current LP Palm? It used to be 21 [16].
Do you mean LP palm or new MP palm(which was vanilla/super lp palm)
MP should be identical to the old frame data(so the 21 you mentioned).
New LP palm is 9f in AE, asfaik 2012 only had a hitbox change and startup should still be 9.
Yes, I meant the AE LP. Thanks.
God, I wanted so bad that LP palm had startup invincibility…
Real talk, if gouken had a 9f palm with 8f invincibility, -4 and significant pushback on block, launches the opponent on a trade that is fadc ok, well he’d be the new vanilla Sagat. A change like that would require such retooling of gouken he might not be gouken anymore.
We all know that these are just hypothesis, but all of that might really be too much. Maybe if the invincibility didn’t reach the active frames.
It’s startup is too long to use as a frame trap, isn’t it?
Not really, a move with all those stats would push Gouken beyond broken. Capcom has already been removing most of Goukens weaknesses, but keeping his 2 fundamental ones, he has a poor wakeup without precise reads and he can’t just toss out lights and get combos off them(except Capcom decided to give us a tiny big damage one with Super, they really do care, but in turn are very careful not to get our character banned from tourneys again 
)
Btw all of that, I just described all the traits it already had and only added 8 frames of invincibility, which would be fantastic as even a trade is a + in our book. 9 frames of invincibility would be gatlike.
As for frame trap what do you mean? If it had invincibility it would actually be a fantastic frame trap, it just wouldn’t counterhit, but it wouldn’t go active till after most active frames, heck it would probably beat out DP’s or cause them to whiff. 2 possible changes that would improve Gouken without breaking him would be either EX Tatsu hit’s low or EX Palm with Full invincibility(The latter has been a playful thought and I haven’t quite considerd the full ramifications of it though).
You have your points puffington but Sagat’s uber move travels and he can even choose the distance. Giving invincibility for a few start-up frames would only help even the score against slap happy mash masters. I don’t see it doing much to improve some of his worst match ups either, like against the mobile characters that seem to own the sky.
Seriously, invincibility on 8f of the palm would make a world of difference on a lot of stuff. So some mobile characters that own the sky specific examples you’d like to give? I might be able to add a few cents and then tell you what a semi invincible palm could do for you(I have a thing for theory fighting, though not as much fun as actually going in, I can’t wait to start exploring ideas I’ve been having in sfxt <3)
What gouken needs is an escape from pressure. ex.flip cancelable to air tatsu or controllable ex.flip would do the job. There are too many characters with either anti-fireball technology, high/mid/low mixup pressure, or spamable armor breakers. Gouken can’t do shit in those matchups except hold downback and guess when the techs/overheads/command throws might happen.
Of course it would help but it wouldn’t make Gouken broken simply because the range is balls.
Vega, Guy, Chun, Fuerte…all match ups I can’t stand and all of these guys have an air grab too which I guess is not coincidence.
Someone else suggested it once before but he needs a Rose-like back dash. Nothing crazy like universe toppling hit stun or mega super rooster reversal time. Gouken feels a lot like a stick and move character. Stay in too close for too long and you’re going to get a face fill of 3-frame revenge. He has a few good ways to pop in for damage, he needs at least one decent way to pop away from the damage.
Exactly my thoughts. Demonflip just works as a counterhit. Anybody that sees it coming hits you on your way down.
I’d trade his invincibility in the demonflip for invincibility in the first frames of the palm. Maybe not even invincibility, just a really good hitbox/hurtbox would do.
Like a Tiger Knee, that could hit any normals (medium or low) thrown at you.
The problem with EX tatsu is that you can be hit out of it’s first frames. Is not some “out of jail” move.
EX palm should at least have full invincibility for projectiles. Giving armor to a move that can lead to that massive damage might be too much.