So does it matter which flip I do as to whether it will cross up or not? I mean, im in the corner in the situation i was describing, having just fireball juggled, so inevitably im right up close with them. Stand fierce into flip in this situation seems to refuse to cross up, it either hits nearside or (rarely) seems to whiff. Should I be mixing up by using stand fierce, jump over and mk to cross up?
Yep I’m doing nothing if counterhit doesn’t show up,though as it’s +2 on hit you can work a frame trap here(best one being with crouch jab, as 3f moves will trade vs our plethora of 5f options), but with it being -3 on block beware the chuns out there.
Overhead has 16 frames(human average is 13 or so) after hit and that’s not counting the time slowed down with hitstop creating the time you need to confirm something like this. My issue with it is hit confirming and then pulling off the correct 1f timing and bringing it all into line. I connect it right 6 out of 10 times in training(either blocked jab or solo tatsu is the common error), which isn’t nearly good enough to incorporate it into matches as I know my success rate goes down.
In the corner, the reset you are talking about doesn’t naturally cross up but on the 1 player side you land in front and on the 2 player side you land behind so you can trick your opponent that way. Try crossing under with a st.lp jab after a juggle fireball. Hit st.lp >dash under. I don’t really like this because it puts me in the corner but it can be pretty nasty. There is also some posts on the Ryu page I think about a nasty reset that can’t be SRK’ed, but I forget how it goes. Check it out.
It’s really about the spacing. Any flip kick can cross up depending on where your opponent is. It depends on which kick button you use to cancel the hp…lk will definitely not cross up unless they move forward a little, mk might depending on the character, hk probably won’t (it kind of plays like a bait tool where they try to sweep or retaliate but you land outside their range and then punish) and you also need to consider when you actually enter the dive kick (the second time you press the kick button)
I would just like to ask the definition of crossup with goukens divekick…
I’ve seen crossup mean “hit in front, land in back” but its a bit misleading cause “hitting in the back” also means crossup.
There are plenty of setups that hit in front, land in back(there are also ones that seem to land behind but land in front crossups). But actual crossups I have a hard time getting.
I dunno, am I the only one feeling a bit lost when someone says crossup when referring to df divekick?
Also, manual divekick, it seems better, or it may not, but we have better normals to complement it. I think there might be potential and I am currently in the lab with it, I think we can use it like Eryu’s for mixups and even feinting df. We’ll see
Flip Kick will never (as far as I’ve seen) cross up in the air, much to the chagrin of people trying to auto-correct-ultra it.
Where it lands (front or back) is the tricksie part.
As for jump dive kick, the hit stun is so short that it’s almost useless. Occasionally I can get somebody who is blocking low against my flip kicks, so I use a jump dive kick, but I can’t usually get anything out of it besides a sc.mk x lp.palm.
Flip kick can cross up, tho most setups I find quite difficult and impractical.
eg. back throw -> walk up forward -> cr.HP (right before they land) xx HK flip divekick at the earliest timing crosses up on standing Ryu and Ken, but the setup can so easily be avoided by walking forward or crouching.
Also from what I can see, some flip kicks that hits front and lands on the other side against standing block, would cross up against crouching block.
Yea, all of the actual crossup df divekicks were free styled demonflips, I think actual crossup setups would be gold to gouken since his mixups are weak. But I guess its too hard to setup for.
Hitting manual dive kick near the knee/ankles of regular sized chars allows for st mp mp palm or even st cl mp IIRC. Of course if blocked is unsafe for anything, but st cl mk lp palm is good enough for me. We should utilize any ways of getting damage as we can, we all know relying on max punishes doesnt always work out.
The manual dive kick is also okay to setup a grab, it acts like an airborne tick throw sometimes.
That’s about all I use it for these days, or to change my jump arc on occasion to get someone to whiff something
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMy8pIpXbudHNCNDFnUWZrR0swaDc4Q0tRY2gwa2c#gid=0
So this was back throw reset demon flip kick cross-up setup spreadsheet (default is HK flip unless stated otherwise) that I was working on back in the Super days. I stopped editing it because it was too much of a BS to find a setup considering its difficulty.
Most of the reset parts are timing dependent, some of them are even active frame dependent (has to hit with 1st active frame, 2nd active frame, etc.). All standing setups can be avoided by walking forward and crouching, and crouching setups will not be cross-up if they stand block. Standing setups will likely get owned by autocorrect delayed SRK. Dive kick has to be cancelled as early as possible, so some crouching setups may be made a true cross-up by delaying the kick by a few frames.
Currently it isn’t very useful for me but if anyone finds a setup interesting or can modify some setups to make it easier it would be great.
[media=youtube]iEHJLyO-eQY[/media]
I finally got a real arcade stick (Hori RAP VX-SA). Any helpful execution tips from you guys would go a long way. I can’t seem to land standing MP into MP Palm for example. I have been able to clean up my Denjin inputs thankfully.
Just practice to be honest. Getting the feeling of when to press MP(so you dont overhead) and then do the dp input is how I do it.
Still no luck. Did manage to get better at other things though. Side note: I knew there was a lack of Gouken’s on line but I had no idea how much. I played another Gouken with near the same BP and I was ranked in the 300’s and he was ranked near 600.
You have no idea. I have a 4k bp ryu. rank in 3000s. I run into a 4k bp gouken, rank 600
Square gate? I started with the octagon gate and then switched to square. There’s more room for motions with the square gate. With the octagon, doing st.mp xx palm would be harder I think.
Try using the short cut. MP. df, df, MP
Thanks for the advice. I’ll think about it. I’ve made it a point to not use shortcuts. Since I don’t have the requisite finger gymnastic skills to do the full motion I may no choice.
Shortcuts, Plinking, cr. teching, and buffering make everything easier. I actually use the full motion or sometimes I rotate the stick from df, db, df. If you are crouch blocking you can slide in a Kongo short cut while you are in block stun and interrupt block strings too. Doing the full motion will cause Gouken to stand.
That shortcut doesn’t actually exist and is often mistaken for the actual shortcut. However it is actually harder to do an actual DF, DF than it is say to do df,d,df which is one way to perform the shortcut. It does actually need 3 inputs, it’s just very lenient in what it accepts as the inputs.(and with kongos shortcut bug there are even more way to get kongo, god’ I’ll never let that go will I)