Now, I’m fully aware that the connection between both parties matter, and I wasn’t saying otherwise. I’m just curious if it’s my connection that is causing my problem. I have played with people only a few miles from me in the same town, and have still experienced outrageous lag. Take that experience online, and the common denominator is me. I only play 3 bar matches, US only, and still have a .5 second input lag. Thus my above statement, and me questioning my connection.
And although I appreciate your attempt at flexing your robust computational literacy nuts, you really should take a look at some other games that have little to no lag. Two of which are fighters. You’re living under a rock at the bottom of the ocean if you think otherwise.
Yes I’m sure all his matches fit your criteria to a T. It’s a pretty damn shitty netcode, that’s been the overwhelming consensus with the players I’ve interacted with.
Yes you need to be a tounrmanet player to see lag spikes, hear underwater sound effects, sprinkle on the random disconnects and horrible matchmaking for the lulz.
well, no match can ever be lag free, read the skullgirls article about net play. That right there suggests a lot about what you know. There is always a little bit of lag even for roll back its just that its wayyyy smaller than input delay like in sf4\umvc3.
but BB and 3soe have the same technology as sfxt, roll back. However there are some small differences. BB, 3soe and sfxt were all created by different companies and with that, there net code styles will be shades of grey. I don’t think 3soe was actually developed by capcom but by an alternate developer in charge of doing the port
et code. not 100% sure about that.
if you REALLY and I mean REALLY want to test the stability of the net code its VERY simple
Play someone in your own city if possible then measure that result. If said player has average internet speed and is the only person using and he isn’t playing on wifi, that is a pretty good test of the net code. Those will be your best connections. GGPO in my city is ridiculously stable.
once you get that done, start spreading out by increments. 100 miles, 200 miles, 300 miles etc… then measure each of those distances and how the game acts according to them
don’t judge the stability of the net code by using the matchmaking system or the bar system. The bar system is ass and the matchmaking is terrible. They do nothing IMO other than trick\fool players.
again, roll back\input delay have draw backs. Neither is perfect but if you account for how many tournament strategies you can use for each system, roll back allows MORE tournament strategies to be effective than input delay. We don’t use laggy ass TV’s for tournament play because the delay prevents the game from being played properly. Now if the lag offline prevents the game from being played properly, why wouldn’t it affect it online too? For tournaments we want none of the delay, therefore online should get as close as to having no delay which would mean roll back.
that statement in bold is such a basic fucking concept, I don’t know why I have to type it out 5 times per page to get people to understand it.
there is no way you can spin this argument in favor of input delay. @ the very least, you can crank up your input delay just like you can on GGPO where as input delay based net codes can’t have a roll back function. roll back gives everyone what they want. wtf is so hard to understand?
Nope, you don’t even have to go to a tournament once to understand the concept of rollback netcode and input delay for fighting games. It’s been explained here very very clearly by various members and if some people still don’t understand then they should worry less about playing video games and more about their education and increasing their intelligence. I’m honestly not joking, but I’m sure they probably won’t listen.
shoultz: roll back is better it does the input delay found in sf4 too
srk member: well input delay is still better
shoultz: roll back is better, it does the input delay found in sf4 too
srk memeber: well input delay is still better
shoultz: roll back is better, it does the input delay found in sf4 too
srk memeber: well input delay is still better
if you’ve missed out on the last few pages, that’s whats been going on.
I’ve been spitting out facts, linking to developer interviews, quoted ridiculously good players like arturo, explained the math behind input delay and why it fucks up the game and the rebuttles I get back are, well input delay is still better. No facts, no developer interviews, no ridiculously good players contradicting what I’ve said.
qualitative responses are subjective. They mean nothing. If you want to say input delay is better, prove it somehow. Get quality players to agree with you, find some material, tell me why laggy inputs is good mathematically. Not this well my opinion is greater than your facts. WTF is that garbage?
The reason its so hard to argue FOR input delay is because you can’t. The reason being because roll back allows both roll back AND input delay… one does both, the other only does the worst of the two.
do people understand that concept yet? I don’t know how I can make it any simpler. If the concept is above you, just stop posting. You don’t see me in alternative engery forums telling everyone air power is the way to go. Mainly because my knowledge is so tiny in that subject that my mouth is better off closed rather than spouting some half assed garbage opinion based on shit. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean you’re going to be right. You have to prove your stance on the argument which I have done for 4 years now
I don’t care about right or wrong, I care about whats best for the community and when people make judgement calls based on limited knowledge, you’re doing way more harm than good. If I’m wrong, fucking prove it to me with something other than shitty opinions
I’m honestly starting to feel bad for Shoultzula, its like he’s preaching to a bunch of 3 year old underdeveloped brains who have have no idea about the topic or what he’s trying to address.
You tell them input lag makes game unplayable the way its intended.
They say SF4 is playable with slight input delay, throw tech window is large enough, I can still hit my DP FADC Ultra blah blah its playable.
sigh…This is the exact problem, we shouldn’t have to be adjusting to input lag!
Or even better they start comparing game-mechanics between SF4/SFxT like that extravagant scrub above. lol way to miss the point.
Another thing is a lot of kids don’t even realize how SF4 has really ‘input-lag friendly’ gameplay at low~intermediate level which most players are. Slow ass gamespeed, longass hitstuns for confirms, floaty jumps easy to AA, big reversal window for ez mashing out moves. All this stuff contributes to the illusion that SF4 is very playable online. Imagine playing a high speed game like MVC or Vampire with the exact same netcode/delay its going to be a nightmare, but SF4 is somewhat decently playable. And SF4 has the largest playerbase so you have all these people defending the SF4 style netcode.
Fact: any amount of input lag added on a fighting game, youre not playing the game in its true form. Even if its 2frame of input lag, thats minus 2 frames of reacting to a throw tech or a overhead or whatever critical reactionary movement.
Seriously, why do I have to explain this on a fucking fighting game forum?
You can’t play seriously or competitively with these input delays. If you enjoy playing with input lag thats fine, thats your choice theres nothing wrong with that.
But Some of us want offline-like responsiveness for our fighting games. And rollback style netcode allows this.
I stopped playing SF4 online because this was bothering me too much (and i played on PC which is said to be the best for online play).
The closest thing we have right now is GGPO(PC) and even thats not perfect compared to actual arcade boards (emulation lag, USB device lag…) but its sure feels 100x responsive than SF4.
For christs sake, top players in Japan are saying online SF4 is unplayable due to input lag.
I know we all play SSF4 onlien anyway because thats the only available option but this should not stop movement to use a superior netcode designed for fighting games.
Yeah and in reality you’re never really dry because there is moisture in the air at all times, and your skin retains moisture. So just because you aren’t physically touching fluids doesn’t mean that you are dry. - Your argument in different context.
And your statement wasn’t that Capcom doesn’t have the technology for a lag free environment, it was that the technology doesn’t exist at all. Which it does. And again pointing to your “nothing is ever lag free” statement, that’s a lame fallback and you know just as well as I do that you’re just trying to make your point still valid.
“Input lag” in game design terms refers to any amount of time that elapses between a player’s input and the corresponding character response. All games have some, and in fact the smallest achievable amount of lag is 3 frames at 60 FPS (an explanation of which is beyond the scope of this post). However, playing a game online adds extra delay because information must be exchanged across the internet, and this is what players commonly refer to as “lag.”Internet delay is never zero, even if you play someone in the next room.
facts my friends, facts. Not only was mike z a pretty good player but he’s now a developer. Which means he understands the tournament persepective as well as the developer perspective. Ideally, he’s the best person to ask when it comes to net codes for fighting games as opposed to Ono who can’t play worth a fucking lick. To date, there is no net code out there where the internet delay is constant 0. It doesn’t exist. Even if you had fiber optic modems, the distance will always cause a certain amount of lag regardless because it takes time for the information to travel.
Read up on that for a bit. Rollback netcode is good, it’s not good here though. A 10 inch dick is great, but not if it’s got a bunch of holes and lumps all over it.
Shouldtzula, youve done well but I think its time to stop.
You can give them all the facts,evidence,explaination but stupid people will never reason with you because thats what they are.
They’re a waste of time and they’re irrelevant to you.
Don’t throw pearls at pigs. Let them believe what they believe in.
Only thing we know is Capcom finally started using rollback netcode and thats a good sign.
You should read that as well. I am not making personal attacks to hide the truth. I already know what’s good here and how the netcode works. It’s 100% clear to me and to most experienced players, developers, etc. as evident in the forum, articles, facts, etc. That’s the truth that some of you are oblivious to for some reason (guessing lack of comprehension/intelligence?)
That’s why I suggested to drop video games and work on yourselves. It was not an attack. It was a considerate suggestion that I truly meant. I guess it’s a video game forum so I shouldnt be surprised there are people with deficiencies or low IQ and it’s not something I find funny, but unfortunate. I’ve only concluded to this after seeing the kinds of arguements and logic on forums for the past few years so I can spot an issue after a certain amount of evidence.
This isnt directly at you, but to stay on topic, for anyone who argues sf4’s netcode is better then rollback and you actually read all the articles and most of the explanations on here as to why rollback is better, then you fit in this category.
One last thing I’d like to add. In general, opinions are usually formed about a subject when there is no objective fact regarding said subject. In retrospect, saying a variable input lag netcode is better then rollback netcode for fighting games is false because rollback netcode being better is a FACT for the various reasons already discussed. It’s like saying riding a bicycle is faster then driving a car. You can’t actually have an opinion that sf4’s netcode is better, or at least that opinion is completely irrelevant due to the fact that was noted.
So for people that know better and read those silly “opinions” all you are really saying is that you are ignorant for not knowing the facts and knowledge behind the arguement to begin with (which is forgivable) and you are also saying that you are unintelligent or lack comprehension because even after thorough evidence and facts have been presented to you… you still don’t understand (which is unfortunate). This is the reality of it, take it however you want but it doesnt change the truth. Accept it and move on.
Still at the personal attacks, nice. You’re arguing for rollback netcode and completely ignoring that it does not work the way it was intended to in SFXTK. If it did then there would be no argument on any level. It doesn’t, it fails, and it’s inferior to previous input delayed netcodes done by Capcom. The arguemnt isn’t against roll back and SFxTk is not the first game you’ll be using to endorse it. I mean really for all this big “IQ” talk, you continually keep missing the point.
If you’re talking about the sound issues, then yea it’s a bug that was not intended, but they did confirm that it will be patched. Other then that, it’s still a rollback netcode that works as intended. It may not be as refined as GGPO, but the core concept is there which is superior to previous input delayed netcodes done by most companies, not just Capcom. If there’s another missing point then please elaborate.
I’m talking about the sloppy netcode(lag spikes still happen, slowdowns still happen), the poor match making, and the random disconnects on top of the sound issue. The lack of a rematch option in player mode and the load times do not help.
