Net code discussion. Rollback confirmed!

[YorKeY]

I’m surprised Artvandely isn’t in here talking about net code, same with that guy with the Akira Yuki avatar who made a thead a while back called " How can human beings be this stupid?" All they talk about is net code. lol

Edit: nevermind just scrolled up and saw art here. XD

[atirador]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Just to make things clear, don’t let my join date fool you, I’m 35 years old and I’ve been playing SF since 91 in the arcades. If you count all the time that I’ve spent playing in the arcades and on consoles offline with friends along all those years, my offline to online ratio is something like 9:1. I’m really not that great, but I can alternate between offline and online without much trouble.

I’m not fighting against a better netcode, I’m stating my personal experience with those 3 games (SFIV, SFxT and HDR).

Once again, if it’s so obvious that GGPO is better and has no clear drawback, why a developer wouldn’t use it?

And don’t say bullshit like “It’s Japan” or whatever, Capcom and probably all of the other FG developers know that Japan’s console market is almost dead, they don’t make a profit there, their biggest market is outside Japan, so it wouldn’t make any sense for them to target that market alone.

I’m not saying GGPO is technically worse than “input-delay”, on an ideal scenario it’s better, I’m just stating that it’s clearly not a black and white situation, otherwise nobody would need to be “convinced” and all the games would be using it.

Clearly there are some drawbacks to GGPO (it uses a lot of CPU resources, for one) and I really don’t think using it should be the main priority while developing SFV, like the title of the thread seems to suggest. If SFV turns out to be a good game, with a good cast of characters and all that, I wouldn’t mind if it uses the SFIV netcode at all.

[Vampire_Saviour]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Just to make things clear, don’t let my join date fool you, I’m 35 years old and I’ve been playing SF since 91 in the arcades. If you count all the time that I’ve spent playing in the arcades and on consoles offline with friends along all those years, my offline to online ratio is something like 9:1. I’m really not that great, but I can alternate between offline and online without much trouble.

I’m not fighting against a better netcode, I’m stating my personal experience with those 3 games (SFIV, SFxT and HDR).

Once again, if it’s so obvious that GGPO is better and has no clear drawback, why a developer wouldn’t use it?

And don’t say bullshit like “It’s Japan” or whatever, Capcom and probably all of the other FG developers know that Japan’s console market is almost dead, they don’t make a profit there, their biggest market is outside Japan, so it wouldn’t make any sense for them to target that market alone.

I’m not saying GGPO is technically worse than “input-delay”, on an ideal scenario it’s better, I’m just stating that it’s clearly not a black and white situation, otherwise nobody would need to be “convinced” and all the games would be using it.

Clearly there are some drawbacks to GGPO (it uses a lot of CPU resources, for one) and I really don’t think using it should be the main priority while developing SFV, like the title of the thread seems to suggest. If SFV turns out to be a good game, with a good cast of characters and all that, I wouldn’t mind if it uses the SFIV netcode at all.

If you know that GGPO is objectively better, then why are you arguing against implementing it?

Look I can use my experience to argue against shit netcode: I’ve seen some hilarious shit on SF4 netcode; I wouldn’t ever want to see it implemented in a new game.

[atirador]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Just to make things clear, don’t let my join date fool you, I’m 35 years old and I’ve been playing SF since 91 in the arcades. If you count all the time that I’ve spent playing in the arcades and on consoles offline with friends along all those years, my offline to online ratio is something like 9:1. I’m really not that great, but I can alternate between offline and online without much trouble.

I’m not fighting against a better netcode, I’m stating my personal experience with those 3 games (SFIV, SFxT and HDR).

Once again, if it’s so obvious that GGPO is better and has no clear drawback, why a developer wouldn’t use it?

And don’t say bullshit like “It’s Japan” or whatever, Capcom and probably all of the other FG developers know that Japan’s console market is almost dead, they don’t make a profit there, their biggest market is outside Japan, so it wouldn’t make any sense for them to target that market alone.

I’m not saying GGPO is technically worse than “input-delay”, on an ideal scenario it’s better, I’m just stating that it’s clearly not a black and white situation, otherwise nobody would need to be “convinced” and all the games would be using it.

Clearly there are some drawbacks to GGPO (it uses a lot of CPU resources, for one) and I really don’t think using it should be the main priority while developing SFV, like the title of the thread seems to suggest. If SFV turns out to be a good game, with a good cast of characters and all that, I wouldn’t mind if it uses the SFIV netcode at all.

If you know that GGPO is objectively better, then why are you arguing against implementing it?

Look I can use my experience to argue against shit netcode: I’ve seen some hilarious shit on SF4 netcode; I wouldn’t ever want to see it implemented in a new game.

Because I also think that a game running with DriveClub graphics at 4K and 60fps is objectively better than a game at 1080p30fps, but that doesn’t mean it’s viable for a console game and for 95% of PC gamers to play a game like that, hence why I said “on an ideal scenario”.

Unlike most of you, I don’t assume that I know more than Capcom about developing fighting games FOR ALL AUDIENCES, not only SRK-elist-assholes.

Now please wait while I adjust my input-delay for this next match based on the recommendation that the game gave me while also writing a message to my opponent teaching him how to properly setup his router and internet settings.

[Vampire_Saviour]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Just to make things clear, don’t let my join date fool you, I’m 35 years old and I’ve been playing SF since 91 in the arcades. If you count all the time that I’ve spent playing in the arcades and on consoles offline with friends along all those years, my offline to online ratio is something like 9:1. I’m really not that great, but I can alternate between offline and online without much trouble.

I’m not fighting against a better netcode, I’m stating my personal experience with those 3 games (SFIV, SFxT and HDR).

Once again, if it’s so obvious that GGPO is better and has no clear drawback, why a developer wouldn’t use it?

And don’t say bullshit like “It’s Japan” or whatever, Capcom and probably all of the other FG developers know that Japan’s console market is almost dead, they don’t make a profit there, their biggest market is outside Japan, so it wouldn’t make any sense for them to target that market alone.

I’m not saying GGPO is technically worse than “input-delay”, on an ideal scenario it’s better, I’m just stating that it’s clearly not a black and white situation, otherwise nobody would need to be “convinced” and all the games would be using it.

Clearly there are some drawbacks to GGPO (it uses a lot of CPU resources, for one) and I really don’t think using it should be the main priority while developing SFV, like the title of the thread seems to suggest. If SFV turns out to be a good game, with a good cast of characters and all that, I wouldn’t mind if it uses the SFIV netcode at all.

If you know that GGPO is objectively better, then why are you arguing against implementing it?

Look I can use my experience to argue against shit netcode: I’ve seen some hilarious shit on SF4 netcode; I wouldn’t ever want to see it implemented in a new game.

Because I also think that a game running with DriveClub graphics at 4K and 60fps is objectively better than a game at 1080p30fps, but that doesn’t mean it’s viable for a console game and for 95% of PC gamers to play a game like that, hence why I said “on an ideal scenario”.

Unlike most of you, I don’t assume that I know more than Capcom about developing fighting games FOR ALL AUDIENCES, not only SRK-elist-assholes.

Now please wait while I adjust my input-delay for this next match based on the recommendation that the game gave me while also writing a message to my opponent teaching him how to properly setup his router and internet settings.

You just insulted the members of this board for recommending an improvement.

Nothing you said necessitates an objectively worse netcode - in fact you not only insulted people making the case for an improvement (which could be easily explained to the players), but you insulted all people who will be playing this game! Do you think GGPO can’t be explained to the players who want an online experience? Are they all stupid according to you?

Don’t attribute this idiocy to the people looking forward to this game; it’s a business decision by Capcom, and it spells out utter laziness and lack of dedication.

[atirador]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Just to make things clear, don’t let my join date fool you, I’m 35 years old and I’ve been playing SF since 91 in the arcades. If you count all the time that I’ve spent playing in the arcades and on consoles offline with friends along all those years, my offline to online ratio is something like 9:1. I’m really not that great, but I can alternate between offline and online without much trouble.

I’m not fighting against a better netcode, I’m stating my personal experience with those 3 games (SFIV, SFxT and HDR).

Once again, if it’s so obvious that GGPO is better and has no clear drawback, why a developer wouldn’t use it?

And don’t say bullshit like “It’s Japan” or whatever, Capcom and probably all of the other FG developers know that Japan’s console market is almost dead, they don’t make a profit there, their biggest market is outside Japan, so it wouldn’t make any sense for them to target that market alone.

I’m not saying GGPO is technically worse than “input-delay”, on an ideal scenario it’s better, I’m just stating that it’s clearly not a black and white situation, otherwise nobody would need to be “convinced” and all the games would be using it.

Clearly there are some drawbacks to GGPO (it uses a lot of CPU resources, for one) and I really don’t think using it should be the main priority while developing SFV, like the title of the thread seems to suggest. If SFV turns out to be a good game, with a good cast of characters and all that, I wouldn’t mind if it uses the SFIV netcode at all.

If you know that GGPO is objectively better, then why are you arguing against implementing it?

Look I can use my experience to argue against shit netcode: I’ve seen some hilarious shit on SF4 netcode; I wouldn’t ever want to see it implemented in a new game.

Because I also think that a game running with DriveClub graphics at 4K and 60fps is objectively better than a game at 1080p30fps, but that doesn’t mean it’s viable for a console game and for 95% of PC gamers to play a game like that, hence why I said “on an ideal scenario”.

Unlike most of you, I don’t assume that I know more than Capcom about developing fighting games FOR ALL AUDIENCES, not only SRK-elist-assholes.

Now please wait while I adjust my input-delay for this next match based on the recommendation that the game gave me while also writing a message to my opponent teaching him how to properly setup his router and internet settings.

You just insulted the members of this board for recommending an improvement.

Nothing you said necessitates an objectively worse netcode - in fact you not only insulted people making the case for an improvement (which could be easily explained to the players), but you insulted all people who will be playing this game! Do you think GGPO can’t be explained to the players who want an online experience? Are they all stupid according to you?

Don’t attribute this idiocy to the people looking forward to this game; it’s a business decision by Capcom, and it spells out utter laziness and lack of dedication.

First, it’s an improvement on one front, but what’s the drawback?

Did I insult you with “SRK-elitist-asshole”? It wasn’t meant for everyone here, obviously, just a few. Especially those who said that if you don’t know how to properly setup your internet connection to play a videogame, you should stay away from said game.

That’s an elitist attitude and if you truly believe that, you’re an asshole.

It’s a hobby for most people. If you are that serious about it you can either play offline, avoid players with a bad connection or play a different game, like Skullgirls or 10~20 years old 2D fighters on GGPO.

I’m really sorry if that offended you.

Do you think GGPO can’t be explained to the players who want an online experience? Are they all stupid according to you?

Netcode should not need to be explained to the player, that’s my point. You boot up the game, pick “Online”, find an opponent and play. At the most the game can instruct you to pick players with green or yellow connections, exactly like SFIV does and it’s been working very well for the game, doesn’t it?

I mean, 6 years after release you still find plenty of people playing it, including dozens of top players streaming everyday around the world.

**I want the best online experience possible, like everyone else here. But I also want an online mode that remains simple for everyone (like SFIV does) and I want pretty graphics and nice sound too, since it’s a “next-gen” 3D game that I expect to run perfectly at 1080p60fps

Can you guarantee that SFV with GGPO will offer that on my PS4? If so, of course you can count me in on the GGPO train then!**

[Missing_Person]

The casuals will still buy a GGPO-based game, and properly implemented, will hardly notice a difference between GGPO netcode and the netcode SF4 had.

[d3v]

Netcode should not need to be explained to the player, that’s my point. You boot up the game, pick “Online”, find an opponent and play. At the most the game can instruct you to pick players with green or yellow connections, exactly like SFIV does and it’s been working very well for the game, doesn’t it?

I mean, 6 years after release you still find plenty of people playing it, including dozens of top players streaming everyday around the world.

**I want the best online experience possible, like everyone else here. But I also want an online mode that remains simple for everyone (like SFIV does) and I want pretty graphics and nice sound too, since it’s a “next-gen” 3D game that I expect to run perfectly at 1080p60fps

Can you guarantee that SFV with GGPO will offer that on my PS4? If so, of course you can count me in on the GGPO train then!**

The point you’re missing is that rollback netcode doesn’t necessarily have to be complex. The inner workings can be completely hidden from the player. Delay can be automatically calculated based on average ping times (the formula is simple, just divide ping times by 17). With that, you don’t even need to ask people to set their delay.

The only difference now will be that, when the connection lags, the game won’t slow down like its on molasses and will simply let you continue while it sorts out the desync and rolls back to the last fair state.

And please, don’t bring the resources/hardware argument out. Killer Instinct has proven that you can have rollback netcode on current/eighth-generation hardware.

[ArtVandelay]

Haven’t ever seen anyone streaming Killer Instinct, manually putting in delay based on distance.
That shit is a process that can and should be automated, and I think (correct me if I’m wrong) that is done in Killer Instinct.

Ever heard complains about KI’s netcode except for a desync here and there?
Well I haven’t and that game is supposed to be the shit online.

[Projectjustice]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Ive been playing since the arcade days myself. I love a offline experience to happen online as well. I didnt grow up with retarded input delay. I personally cant play anyone that doesnt have 3 green bars, anything below and I just start fucking around trying to get the match to end quicker.

We all want a better netcode, the problem isnt which type of netcode they will use. Its that they need to create one that works with all infrastructure to make the game a global hit. Just look at KOF13, personally the game would of been a bigger hit if it had a proper netcode. You go online today and its a ghost town. You get on SF4 right now and you will be in a match in 20 seconds in any global market. Im just looking at it from a business perspective. If GGPO can deliver that then good go for it but from my experience and how dumb gamers are I dont think its the best way of going. Just look at SFxT.

[d3v]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Ive been playing since the arcade days myself. I love a offline experience to happen online as well. I didnt grow up with retarded input delay. I personally cant play anyone that doesnt have 3 green bars, anything below and I just start fucking around trying to get the match to end quicker.

We all want a better netcode, the problem isnt which type of netcode they will use. Its that they need to create one that works with all infrastructure to make the game a global hit. Just look at KOF13, personally the game would of been a bigger hit if it had a proper netcode. You go online today and its a ghost town. You get on SF4 right now and you will be in a match in 20 seconds in any global market. Im just looking at it from a business perspective. If GGPO can deliver that then good go for it but from my experience and how dumb gamers are I dont think its the best way of going. Just look at SFxT.

Except that it’s been proven that GGPO and rollback netcode can deliver quality that is light years beyond what SFIV’s variable delay based netcode can do. Heck, even SFxT’s rollback code implementation was way better than SFIV. The game dying had nothing to do with the quality of it netcode (and more to do with dodgy business practices and being rather broken when it shipped).

For reference, here’s a match in Skullgirls which does use GGPO netcode on the equivalent of 3 yellow bars in SFIV against an opponent in Japan (with my shitty Philippine internet connection).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKf4owAETA
Shit felt almost like offline to me (and I should know since I was in it).

[Projectjustice]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Ive been playing since the arcade days myself. I love a offline experience to happen online as well. I didnt grow up with retarded input delay. I personally cant play anyone that doesnt have 3 green bars, anything below and I just start fucking around trying to get the match to end quicker.

We all want a better netcode, the problem isnt which type of netcode they will use. Its that they need to create one that works with all infrastructure to make the game a global hit. Just look at KOF13, personally the game would of been a bigger hit if it had a proper netcode. You go online today and its a ghost town. You get on SF4 right now and you will be in a match in 20 seconds in any global market. Im just looking at it from a business perspective. If GGPO can deliver that then good go for it but from my experience and how dumb gamers are I dont think its the best way of going. Just look at SFxT.

Except that it’s been proven that GGPO and rollback netcode can deliver quality that is light years beyond what SFIV’s variable delay based netcode can do. Heck, even SFxT’s rollback code implementation was way better than SFIV. The game dying had nothing to do with the quality of it netcode (and more to do with dodgy business practices and being rather broken when it shipped).

For reference, here’s a match in Skullgirls which does use GGPO netcode on the equivalent of 3 yellow bars in SFIV against an opponent in Japan (with my shitty Philippine internet connection).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKf4owAETA
Shit felt almost like offline to me (and I should know since I was in it).

Sorry but Japan has one of the greatest internet infrastructures on the planet, thats why shitty ass netcode still works over there. The main reasons KOF13 netcode is a shitstorm anywhere else in the world but if you play it in Japan its perfect. So its a really bad comparison compared to other markets in the world. That same connection you enjoyed so much doesnt mean others will experience the same. Go get on GGPO and play a Brazilian player, you would want to slam your controller against the wall.

Hey if they can get GGPO to work everywhere im in all for it. So we will see.

[ArtVandelay]

IT WORKS EVERYWHERE FOR FUCKS SAKE! WHY THE FUCK SHOULDNT IT?

[d3v]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Ive been playing since the arcade days myself. I love a offline experience to happen online as well. I didnt grow up with retarded input delay. I personally cant play anyone that doesnt have 3 green bars, anything below and I just start fucking around trying to get the match to end quicker.

We all want a better netcode, the problem isnt which type of netcode they will use. Its that they need to create one that works with all infrastructure to make the game a global hit. Just look at KOF13, personally the game would of been a bigger hit if it had a proper netcode. You go online today and its a ghost town. You get on SF4 right now and you will be in a match in 20 seconds in any global market. Im just looking at it from a business perspective. If GGPO can deliver that then good go for it but from my experience and how dumb gamers are I dont think its the best way of going. Just look at SFxT.

Except that it’s been proven that GGPO and rollback netcode can deliver quality that is light years beyond what SFIV’s variable delay based netcode can do. Heck, even SFxT’s rollback code implementation was way better than SFIV. The game dying had nothing to do with the quality of it netcode (and more to do with dodgy business practices and being rather broken when it shipped).

For reference, here’s a match in Skullgirls which does use GGPO netcode on the equivalent of 3 yellow bars in SFIV against an opponent in Japan (with my shitty Philippine internet connection).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKf4owAETA
Shit felt almost like offline to me (and I should know since I was in it).

Sorry but Japan has one of the greatest internet infrastructures on the planet, thats why shitty ass netcode still works over there. The main reasons KOF13 netcode is a shitstorm anywhere else in the world but if you play it in Japan its perfect. So its a really bad comparison compared to other markets in the world. That same connection you enjoyed so much doesnt mean others will experience the same. Go get on GGPO and play a Brazilian player, you would want to slam your controller against the wall.

Hey if they can get GGPO to work everywhere im in all for it. So we will see.

Missing the point. The connection between me and Shachi, aside from taking place across part of the ocean, is about equivalent to a yellow bar connection in SFIV. Trust me, I’ve tried it and played against Japanese players in SFIV and it isn’t a happy experience.

What you’re seeing here is as good as a 3 green bar connection in SFIV or even better.

Want further proof. Here’s a match from across the Pacific when I was trying to get a friend to try to learn 3rd Strike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2HwQcTEgA

Here’s the thing to note, while it looks like we’re just dicking around, we’re actually on video chat via Google Plus and I’m helping him figure out stuff (including that lol, raw SA2 try to parry this moment at the end). All this on a 3mbps connection that barely ever hit that speed.

[atirador]

Netcode should not need to be explained to the player, that’s my point. You boot up the game, pick “Online”, find an opponent and play. At the most the game can instruct you to pick players with green or yellow connections, exactly like SFIV does and it’s been working very well for the game, doesn’t it?

I mean, 6 years after release you still find plenty of people playing it, including dozens of top players streaming everyday around the world.

**I want the best online experience possible, like everyone else here. But I also want an online mode that remains simple for everyone (like SFIV does) and I want pretty graphics and nice sound too, since it’s a “next-gen” 3D game that I expect to run perfectly at 1080p60fps

Can you guarantee that SFV with GGPO will offer that on my PS4? If so, of course you can count me in on the GGPO train then!**

The point you’re missing is that rollback netcode doesn’t necessarily have to be complex. The inner workings can be completely hidden from the player. Delay can be automatically calculated based on average ping times (the formula is simple, just divide ping times by 17). With that, you don’t even need to ask people to set their delay.

The only difference now will be that, when the connection lags, the game won’t slow down like its on molasses and will simply let you continue while it sorts out the desync and rolls back to the last fair state.

And please, don’t bring the resources/hardware argument out. Killer Instinct has proven that you can have rollback netcode on current/eighth-generation hardware.

Capcom itself brought this argument, I believe even Seth Killian talked about it when he was working there. GGPO is CPU-intensive, wich doesn’t really matter for 2D games but it can affect the performance of real-time 3D rendering, forcing the game to run at lower resolution or quality overall to keep it at 60fps

KI isn’t exactly the level of graphics that I’m expecting from SFV, the game used to run at 720p (only now, in S2 that it was updated to 900p). I didn’t bought a “nex-gen machine” to run on outdated resolution, I have a 1080p TV for years now.

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Ive been playing since the arcade days myself. I love a offline experience to happen online as well. I didnt grow up with retarded input delay. I personally cant play anyone that doesnt have 3 green bars, anything below and I just start fucking around trying to get the match to end quicker.

We all want a better netcode, the problem isnt which type of netcode they will use. Its that they need to create one that works with all infrastructure to make the game a global hit. Just look at KOF13, personally the game would of been a bigger hit if it had a proper netcode. You go online today and its a ghost town. You get on SF4 right now and you will be in a match in 20 seconds in any global market. Im just looking at it from a business perspective. If GGPO can deliver that then good go for it but from my experience and how dumb gamers are I dont think its the best way of going. Just look at SFxT.

Except that it’s been proven that GGPO and rollback netcode can deliver quality that is light years beyond what SFIV’s variable delay based netcode can do. Heck, even SFxT’s rollback code implementation was way better than SFIV. The game dying had nothing to do with the quality of it netcode (and more to do with dodgy business practices and being rather broken when it shipped).

Here’s where you guys lose me on this whole GGPO thing.

I’ve been playing SFIV online since 2009 against various brazilian players from all over the country (Brazil is a big country, so we’re talking about distances like 1,000 miles or more). Now I have a 15Mbps connection, but I used to play with a 1Mbps connection just fine with most of them.

I’ve tried SFxT for more than a month, both before and after the initial patch that “fixed” the sound issues and playing on the same connection, against the same people, my online experience was always worst than SFIV, even disregarding the sound issues (that was far more annoying than some people here tried to picture it).

So either SFxT is not “proper GGPO”, so it can’t be used as an argument in favor of this netcode **or **it’s a good example of how GGPO improves online experience because “it’s better than SFIV” (wich, in my experience, it is not).

Can you guys decide wich one?

[Alexisdabomb]

D3, were you on XBLA or PSN? Just curious. PSN 3SOE was garbage.

[Projectjustice]

D3, were you on XBLA or PSN? Just curious. PSN 3SOE was garbage.

3SOE is pretty good on XBLA post patches.

[Projectjustice]

IT WORKS EVERYWHERE FOR FUCKS SAKE! WHY THE FUCK SHOULDNT IT?

I dont think you understand what im getting at. Of course it will work but you arent looking at the big picture here. You dont want to turn off the majority of players {casuals} with teleporting characters because of rollback. These casuals that make up the vast majority of your sales. If you have to take into account all 3 major markets internet infrastructure and how they work. I want SF5 to be a bigger success than SF4. It cant work like 3SOE did when it was released and then wait months for it to work. It would be IP suicide.

[Projectjustice]

Burnyourego judging by some of the responses of the input delay supporters, those reasons may indeed be too difficult for them to understand.

I grew up in the arcades, before there was online fighting games…so everything was offline. I didn’t grow up with retarded input delay completely change the game netcode in SF4, so when I play that it honestly feels like shit. The difference is as noticeable as a punch to the face, nothing subtle about it, it is a different game. With GGPO it is mind blowing, cause it feels like offline.

Why anyone is fighting better netcode makes no sense. What is the negative? No more lag tactic abuse maybe? Or what? I guess if people are fed shit long enough they think it is prime steak.

Ive been playing since the arcade days myself. I love a offline experience to happen online as well. I didnt grow up with retarded input delay. I personally cant play anyone that doesnt have 3 green bars, anything below and I just start fucking around trying to get the match to end quicker.

We all want a better netcode, the problem isnt which type of netcode they will use. Its that they need to create one that works with all infrastructure to make the game a global hit. Just look at KOF13, personally the game would of been a bigger hit if it had a proper netcode. You go online today and its a ghost town. You get on SF4 right now and you will be in a match in 20 seconds in any global market. Im just looking at it from a business perspective. If GGPO can deliver that then good go for it but from my experience and how dumb gamers are I dont think its the best way of going. Just look at SFxT.

Except that it’s been proven that GGPO and rollback netcode can deliver quality that is light years beyond what SFIV’s variable delay based netcode can do. Heck, even SFxT’s rollback code implementation was way better than SFIV. The game dying had nothing to do with the quality of it netcode (and more to do with dodgy business practices and being rather broken when it shipped).

For reference, here’s a match in Skullgirls which does use GGPO netcode on the equivalent of 3 yellow bars in SFIV against an opponent in Japan (with my shitty Philippine internet connection).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKf4owAETA
Shit felt almost like offline to me (and I should know since I was in it).

Sorry but Japan has one of the greatest internet infrastructures on the planet, thats why shitty ass netcode still works over there. The main reasons KOF13 netcode is a shitstorm anywhere else in the world but if you play it in Japan its perfect. So its a really bad comparison compared to other markets in the world. That same connection you enjoyed so much doesnt mean others will experience the same. Go get on GGPO and play a Brazilian player, you would want to slam your controller against the wall.

Hey if they can get GGPO to work everywhere im in all for it. So we will see.

Missing the point. The connection between me and Shachi, aside from taking place across part of the ocean, is about equivalent to a yellow bar connection in SFIV. Trust me, I’ve tried it and played against Japanese players in SFIV and it isn’t a happy experience.

What you’re seeing here is as good as a 3 green bar connection in SFIV or even better.

Want further proof. Here’s a match from across the Pacific when I was trying to get a friend to try to learn 3rd Strike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2HwQcTEgA

Here’s the thing to note, while it looks like we’re just dicking around, we’re actually on video chat via Google Plus and I’m helping him figure out stuff (including that lol, raw SA2 try to parry this moment at the end). All this on a 3mbps connection that barely ever hit that speed.

Well I hope you are right and it translate to the rest of the world. I do play 3SOE and it was trash for a long time until that last patch. It still needs some more tweaking but it gets the job done. If GGPO is implemented in SF5 it just cant work like 3SOE did at first. It would be dead on arrival like KOF13. It has to be great day 1.

[YorKeY]

The casuals will still buy a GGPO-based game, and properly implemented, will hardly notice a difference between GGPO netcode and the netcode SF4 had.

Well, if SFV has even slightly of a better net code that USF4 on XBL has (might be around GFWL PC AE days level) that would be incentive enough to keep playing and actually want to get good at the game cause they saw how good everyone was online (some people might get discouraged, but after getting combo’d by Yun’s genejin, it did the opposite for me, i wanted in) , look up tips, stumble across SRK and the rest of the FGC, then eventually find out how to actually use GGPO (delay numbers) thus enhancing their experience further. Iv’e had a few friends not want to play SF4 seriously, because they bought it on PC, and the first thing they told me was " damn, how do you play past all this lag, i think only dedicated tournament players would play in these conditions, not me, i bet it gets annoying for them." (that it does get annoying)

Edit: Didn’t read what you said properly, but not going to delete what i said, but…
Well isn’t that the case for all games? Casuals just want a game that’s playable, a game that doesn’t end up being a coin toss whether you get to play a sub par match, or you get to not play at all, same applies to us, we don’t like that shit either, only difference is, we notice all of the little hiccups.

IT WORKS EVERYWHERE FOR FUCKS SAKE! WHY THE FUCK SHOULDNT IT?

I dont think you understand what im getting at. Of course it will work but you arent looking at the big picture here. You dont want to turn off the majority of players {casuals} with teleporting characters because of rollback. These casuals that make up the vast majority of your sales. If you have to take into account all 3 major markets internet infrastructure and how they work. I want SF5 to be a bigger success than SF4. ** It cant work like 3SOE did when it was released and then wait months for it to work. It would be IP suicide.

**

Don’t forget the release of USF4 on PC either, this statement is so true, it pretty much NEEDS to work right out the box, PC community took a bit hit cause of how they handled USF4 launch.