Net code discussion. Rollback confirmed!

They happen when the packets from the other player have been received. If they haven’t been received, the game will continue to run on prediction alone. Most games have a timeout on that so that when packets aren’t arriving the mach is frozen or dropped (necessary because you can only store so many rollback frames). The second measure is against wrongly processing inputs and is a checksum, ie routinely comparing the last confirmed state of your match with your opponent’s. if they don’t match everything is dropped (once the games have diverged further than the rollback window you can’t really bring them back in line short of replaying everything from the beginning). So it all depends on what was bugging in that KI match.

If the checksum wasn’t working then yes, we were looking at buggy remote input processing. If it was, then the timeout was buggy and we were looking at games running entirely on predictions, ie shadows (because if they weren’t shadows they’d have stopped attacking as soon as synchronization was lost).

That’s the thing though ,the original GGPO article by Tony Cannon does mention the possibility of a more complex, play-specific prediction system (ie shadows) as the best way to minimize teleports. It makes sense that it would be the explored direction for anyone he’d have advised.

Regarding delay, the thing with rollbacks is you can really set it to whatever you want. It effectively decouples the experienced delay from the actual delay, which is why GGPO and Skullgirls plain give you the option of setting it to your liking, depending on whether input delay or teleports are more your thing. So in that sense, it’s easy for Capcom to set the bar lower, the question is whether they can do it without teleports, in which case better prediction is the only mean.


Note that rollback doesn’t affect the actual connection delay. In that, it’s a bit of a sleight of hand: if the connection with your opponent has a delay of 4f, then the information will arrive 4 frames late no matter your model. In an input delay model you’ll see it starting 4 frames later, in a 0f delay, pure rollback model you’ll see it 4 frames later but already 4 frames into the move, in a 3f delay with rollback (like KI) you’ll see it 4 frames later, 1 frame into the move and thus a move starting 3 frames later.

So the thing is, no matter the model you’re using, you can’t react any faster, because the information is always arriving too late (again, unless the prediction is a shadow and correctly guesses the opponent’s action). But what’s great with rollbacks is you, the local player, don’t have to suffer as much lag for your own character, so it feels a lot better to handle.

I honestly don’t think 3F of consistent delay should be considered a good thing. Maybe for some games that’s fine but for others that’s basically unplayable.

3SOE for example I’ll take 0F of delay and live with the rollbacks easy. It’s near impossible to red parry even basic stuff like Yun 1-2-3 with a couple frames of lag.

I always set 0f input delay in any game with ggpo. The point is to be like offline, any input lag at all ruins that.

I can have an “offline experience” on anything up to 3 frames of lag (above the norm for what the game is). Once it gets to 4 frames it starts to really feel underwater.

[quote=“YorKeY, post:402, topic:172867”]

MK9 was damn near unplayable. Worst experience I have ever had with a fighter online. MKX is bad too, slightly worse than Injustice in my experience although both are miles ahead of MK9.

Both SF4 and SFxT have been hit-and-miss/decent at best for me. Seemed to get worse overtime. If SFV’s netcode actually turns out as apparently planned, I’ll never stop playing the damn thing.

A lot can be done to make the online experience acceptable or better for poorer or even middle of the road connections.

For example, the leap in playability Quake underwent when id transitioned from Netquake to Quakeworld back in the day was insane. Don’t write the potential for solid online play off yet. If KI can establish a new yardstick, I’d like to think Capcom can give things a decent shake-up also.

Really looking forward to rollback because I’m tired of adjusting my input time based on the connection, it makes punishing stuff far more difficult. Having a universal input time will be fantastic.

You don’t speak for me. Online itself is an impediment to truly learning the game.

Fuck online.

Rollback is good though, Skullgirls lives and dies online and it’s the same people dominating online and off because the game functions the same way in both.

Rollback net-code has already been announced.

I hope not.

Don’t use Skullgirls and “lives” in the same sentence.

Also Kagemusha is propietary rollback netcode anyway.

Source?

Seriously? There’s a thread just for the netcode, and on top of that, a thread for all the news and info about the game, all in the stickies!

And on that note. Merging this thread.

I realized this way too late in SF4 and by the time that realization hit me I was already so full of bad habits I might as well have quit.

Dear Capcom,

Rollback or bust.

Sincerely,
Everyone

Unless they go the Namco route and lag the offline on purpose so online feels better.

@d3v suggestion: change name of thread to “Street Fighter V Netcode Discussion” because it’s obvious GGPO isn’t going to get implemented now and it might as well just be a general “discuss netcodes and SF5 netcode potential in general” type thread

I didn’t even care whether it was ggpo or another rollback code, as long as it was rollback. They’re doing a couple other tricks like opening the windows to buffer in links so at least when it comes to combos people don’t always have to learn 2 different timings for split second links.

In general solid online with rollback will help those that don’t live near an active scene and give them more incentive to go out to a major event. Gets people to practice setups and footsies under conditions that are more true to offline play also.

General rule of thumb for me as far as netcode goes, is that it needs to be good enough that I can take matches seriously without feeling like I’m being gimped. Bad netcode is a hindrance to the competitive scene. If players who don’t live near a scene cannot experience what actually playing the game feels like, then they won’t ever get into it enough to come out to an event.

Only online matches I can take seriously take place on the GGPO engine. SFIV’s netcode is probably the best non-rollback netcode I’ve seen, but it doesn’t change the fact that a game so heavily built on links and 1 frame punishes is using the worst netcode for doing them. The recent Yatagarasu even before getting GGPO, is taking my second place spot for best netcode.

I just hope we won’t have sound issues like in SFxT. This was annyoing as hell.

What sound issues?

When SFxT dropped, their rollback implementation had issues with handling the sound queues, with them being muted a lot of the time when conditions varied. I believe this was patched in subsequent releases, but it was really irritating. Gameplay would flow acceptably, but sounds would be dropped or omitted entirely - it was very jarring and confusing.

I’d hazard a guess and say that issues such as this (if they were to occur again) would be among the first revealed, captured and addressed by the forthcoming beta test.