You know, the 2nd and 3rd Rocket thing is totally remedied if you either dash up or back once you hit the ground, right?
I do now 
Now back to my cave so I can get the hang of this Ammy corner reset!
Ok, latenite labbin’ revealed this.
Of the following Nem combo, cr. L, st.M, st.H, wallbounce, cr.M, st.H, groundbounce, launcher, MMHS, BWA, base damage, 729ish. Continued with Vergil
Maximum Vergil, prone to change, but I got 845 at best, 820s usually. meh.
Swords, (jump and helm breaker) x 2, lunar phase, otg into Maximum Vergil, prone to change, 986, good, uses 3 meters.
Swords, (jump and helm breaker) x 2, lunar phase, call Ammy and otg, they flip out at 889ish, get caught in Ammy’s remaining ice as you teleport downward, good mixup opportunity.
There’s definitely sword loops, but I don’t care to learn them this late at night, or at all. Now for Ammy second.
Okami Shuffle, 3H, I actually got 920s-940s here, great damage for a simple DHC.
Slowdown, raw tag to Nem, they land before you can throw out a move, soft knockdown, roll up slowly, into some tentacles, AWW YEAH RESETS, no extra damage, but the slowdown assist the reset setup big time, and allows you to reset after 729k, not an often seen pre-reset numbah. For killing guys like the Hulk.
CANNOT go slowdown into raw tag and expect to combo with either vergil, to hit with the raw tag and use that to continue the combo, you need Ammy to dash underneath before the tag, and that cannot be done in the corner, where BWA lands them mostly.
Slowdown, switch to glaive (if you aren’t in glaive already, the QCF L is a bitch, replace it with another glaive loop), charged QCF L, 6H x 4, dash 6H x 4 again, call Vergil in the third or so hit, chain rapid slash to Okami Shuffle, 3H, the timing is tough at first, but it’s doable. Total damage: 1 million +. GOOD SHIT. You can do a third glaive loop but it makes it nearly impossible to hit with okami shuffle after rapid slash, the hitstun’s so big they flip out during the super if you manage to get the bitchy timing. Added bonus, for some reason this combo, though using 4 or 5 ground bounces or so, still occasionally allows you to gbounce with the 3H. What you should do there is switch to disc and launch. Don’t expect another okami shuffle, you’ve never seen a sucka flip out of a combo so fast.
WEIRD TECH ALERT, Nem has an especially large hitbox on his rawtag, meaning he can hit with a raw tag while other characters cannot, and this is useful because that means Nemesis can always tag in after a BHR DHCed to slowdown. At the moment I have no damaging setups for this, but the concept combo is s.H, DP M, BHR, let the second shot of the final punch just hit, then DHC right away, hold down the tag button, Nem’s in, and I managed to S, MMHS BWA afterwards, and that was 750something and not NEARLY optimized for damage. Other not nearly optimized variant, but better, ABC Launch, MMH delay down DR, st. H plus call vergil, DP M, st. H, DP M, BHR, DHC to Ammy slowdown, Tag back to Nemesis QCF L, DP H, BWA for 790,600. Not worth it at all, but it’s swaggy as hell.
The very fact that Nem can tag in and combo off it, and tag in from many points on the screen to land a hit, you can use a tag in as a mixup, which is cool. You can easily do simple shit like slowdown, Nem tag, st.H DP M, st. H QCF L, j.H DR downwards, st. H, launcher, MMHS, BWA, or Nem tag, st.H, S, MMH Dr downwards, st. H, DP M, st. H, QCF L, S, HS, BWA, none of these are more than early 700k, but Nem slow combos can combo things together in ways that weren’t available before. Someone will find a way to abuse that.
So, Ammy second and Vergil second do have about the same amount of damage from using more than one meter. And Vergil has swords, which is an advantage. But, for one meter, Ammy does more damage with the DHC to Okami Shuffle. And with Ammy second, you’d be able to utilize the slow tag as ayet another tool in your arsenal. And lvl3 Vergil certainly isn’t bad, and Ammy would probly make more use out of bounce assists than vergil. I vote for Ammy second.
My team is Nemesis (clothesline)/X-23 (angle slice)/Akuma (tasu) is there any problems with this team or should I try any other characters to help Nemesis out, cause I’m determined to be a great Nemesis and I want to make sure I have everything he needs in his team. Open to any suggestions and thanks in advance.
YAY NEM AND X-23!!! I run it too. Though X-23 is one of the worse otgs for Nem, she’s still an otg, letting Nem convert a lot of damage off of just about anything. And the fact she’s a low lets Nem occasionally open up people set on blocking you and punishing Nemesis’ at best semi-safe strings. And X-23 has the advantage of being able to abuse Nemesis’s meter gain, in the form of her unblockable. And you even use clothesline! A man after my own heart. You might know this, but X-23 gets great extension from that assist, the wall bounce and the rocket hits after a charged ankle slice otg and assist call. And clothesline makes for a decent incoming crossup, and if it fails it keeps them still for either a command throw if they duck, or a bunch of pressure. And her DHC from Nem’s rockets is pretty good. Akuma helps you get close with Nemesis and X-23, and can hold a decent ranged game, yeah that team is good. I was actually considering Akuma on my mains, but I found that if I did LMH mirage feint M + assist, the tatsus made it weird to convert into full combos. And I’m a meh akuma. I love it, but I’m extremely biased.
Well, his backdash makes him invincible tho, thats something ^^
You mean like Hsien-Ko? How’s that working out for her?
In Shuma’s defense, his dash is 5000 times faster, and he has surprisingly great footsies. And I keep mentioning he does have the ability to open people up quite easily with a slow lockdown assist. cr. H air mystic smash, cr. H air mystic smash so on, until hit and combo. Throw some more low normals to fake them out, and boom. If I could actually do combos with Shuma, I’d give him a try on a team.
It may be faster, but you don’t see backdashes crossing up in any regard. Which would admittedly make him much better
Being able to escape unblockables in the corner because of an invincible backdash is a good thing that makes a character better than he would be if he didnt have it 
Still being stuck in the corner is a bad thing. And actual unblockables, be they moves or high/low setups, are much less common than the left/right hell that is dominating the game.
Shuma’s great backdash also gives him the ability to play footsies better than a few other characters. His mobility is not terrible either, as I find his airdash, though slow, allows some high/low game, and his air mystic smash is like a gimmicky Delta Kick which can be used with assist cover. He’s not completely inept. I’d say that honor goes solely to Hsien-Ko/Iron fist/PW, and PW can even work with a REALLY specific team, because he can self-setup unblockables in any mode, leading to touches of death if he’s in supermode.
I just hate charge characters, their combos feel alien (pun intended) to me.
As long as Shuma isnt in blockstun, he can escape any high/low left/right mixup with a backdash cause it is invincible and it crosses past (if thats even a term). Personally i think Shuma is at least mid tier, the only reason “we all” think othervice is cause no-one uses him, wich i think is cause most local places probably dont have him, and most streams dont have him, so no-one gets to see what crazy stuff he can do. But team synergy between him and Nemesis seems to be sub par.
That’s not true. First of all, they could cross you up before, during, and after the dash. I tried with Wesker, he had no problem. Secondly, most left/right mixups don’t care about that because they either A) happen to you DURING block stun or close to it, B)cross you up multiple times, C) they can cross you up before hand to make sure you dash forward instead of backward, D) usually have a lock down assist of sorts to cover them, and even if you block that, you’re still in blockstun, far from escaping
Before we get into a long discussion about Shuma’s placement on the tier list (previous contenders include Jill and Tron, and probly more before I joined), I don’t dislike tier discussions, in fact, I like the dialogue, it helps expand public knowledge of low-tier tech, which is more interesting than high-tier tech. Regardless, lemme just bullet point my understanding of Shuma Gorath. I may not play him, but I’m a big stream monster and love looking into the weirder characters.
Good Stuff:
-great high/low game,
-good footsies, combos drop on him A LOT (for fun, starting in the corner, try doing a QCF L, don’t move, st. MH DP+M, with Nemesis on Shuma. It doesn’t work?! And it does on Zero and RR? Weird.)
-small crouching hitbox,
-ability to deal with advancing guard (mystic smash is like a gimmicky delta kick, in pretty much every respect)
-his standing and forward H’s are basically a sword
-he builds meter, quite a bit of it. He’s no Zero/Haggar, but who is?
-he is good against jump-ins and some specials, cr.H!!! Also, since, his crouching H can hit jumpers well and can be jump cancelled off of a block or a hit, he can convert a failed anti-air into pressure that brings them to the ground for high/lows, and he’s legitimately one of the best at shutting down up-backers. It takes some timing, but I did just beat a foot dive with a cr. H in training mode.
-an unblockable, which is never something to scoff at. BUT, nothing to combo afterwards, so it loses the ability to insta-kill anyone, like X-23 (<3)
-his heavy mystic stare can allow Shuma to hit with multiple hypers in one combo, allowing him to get absurd damage, one-shotting fools like Morrigan with the right swing, and one-shotting too many people with a chaos dimension in-combo. And remember, he builds good meter.
-an underrated assist, hits full screen, helps neutral game a bunch.
-That air S is quite good at sneaky overheads paired with an OTG assist, actually, he doesn’t need that either, his H mystic ray otgs for him better than his assist does by far.
-He’s sassy. Look at those poses he does during his command throw and hypers (command throw can be comboed off by the way, for damn good damage in the corner)
-The way he says teammates’ names is great. Vergil sounds like a sneeze. Rocket Raccoon, Ghost Rrridahh, Whisker, and X-23 are some of my favorites. And his opening against Vergil is so angry “I’ll eviscerate you, half-breed!”.
Bad Stuff:
A lot of his pros come with problems, such as…
-Pushblockers get a small window of action on Shuma gorath during the strings which keep him close, which means Shuma wants lockdown to abuse his good mixup game. Otherwise, he’s still tough to block for a while, but there are definitely gaps, small ones, but gaps.
-His unblockable is pretty bad. No followup options, I don’t think, don’t quote me on that. good in combos, but essentially acts like a regular lvl3.
-No safe DHCs in. When he’s close. Chaos dimension might…lemme actually lab this one…Wow, chaos dimension is pretty swanky DHCing in off of certain specials that end close up (COUGH NEMESIS), it’s safeish IF it’s not whiffing, and advancing guard doesn’t hurt it (dash up, hi there, chaos). AND that’s a shit-ton of meter spent for a free 400k damage or so, but that’s not too great.
-All his damaging combos are corner. Don’t get me wrong, he has two jump loops on the ground, and a midscreen relaunch, but if he doesn’t end that air MMHS in the corner, you can only do, without significant team setup, 600k or so. So, he’s BAD when he’s the one in the corner (his incoming sucks more from that than from unblockable entrys from the other team), unless you have Spencer/Vergil for that DHC into more of a combo. So, probly use him in front, or have some pretty damn fly midscreen reset setups.
-He’s slow, he can cancel a slow-ass forward dash, and an amazingly fast backdash (which is not bad for teh footsies) He wants to be close, so he can destroy, but his jump arc is meh, his air movement is meh, his forward ground movement is meh. His mystic smash is the exception, it’s godlike at closing the gap, BUT it gets lamed out because it’s not nearly as hard to stop with projectiles. So, pair him with a slow approach assist, drones comes to mind.
-His backdash is at best just a fast dash, I have discovered. I keep trying this out against a lot of buttons, and unless Shuma dashes first, hard to actually dodge a move.
-His assist is under-rated, but it’s not godlike. It’s great at augmenting neutral game, but strong zoners beat it for projectile durability, and comboing with it is possible, but odd.
-His moves are good for zoning non-zoners, but other zoners can beat him. His moves with assists cover so much space, but the slower speed in which shuma chucks pretty good projectiles doesn’t hold up to a fast beam or a Trish/Morrigan/Dorm on the warpath.
So, all his pros are negated by some caveat or another, but almost all of these can be circumvented with the right team support, and he could benefit a phoenix team, or a team with Sentinel or Dante, or something like that. I like him, but he’s certainly not wonderful. Everyone has their place in a match, except for Hsien-Ko (sorry, I love ya and all, it’s just you suck so much.You’d be really pretty godlike if they armored the shit out of your air dash like I want them to do in a patch).
LLND would like a word with you.
LLND is the exception. I love watching those matches, but my opinion stands. Everyone can be good with everyone, but Hsien-Ko is a tiny bit worse if you put in the same amount of skill and effort, than every other character, I feel. Her assist is amazing, but since so many high-pressure characters can essentially set up a cold star for free, it’s superfluous except on very specific teams. I don’t like her, which is a shame, because her character is so cool. I’ve been blown up by one Hsien-Ko ever, but he was a 2nd or 1st lord (so he does have some swag), and I managed to sweep his whole team with Nemesis the match before that.
Edit: Now I want to see hypothetical armored-airdash Hsien-Ko in the hands of LLND. I think it would be a good idea, and would give her some crazy unstoppable approaches, with absolutely no mixups, but still. Dang.
[media=youtube]wF5de9YPe3g[/media]
At around 1:46:30 a match starts with Angelic, a player from my locals who plays Shuma fairly well, IMO. If you look around on this channel you could prolly find more of his gameplay, but I thought it’d be cool to show some of what a Shuma player is capable of.
Also, thinly veiled advertisement for Team Hazmat
Dat level 3 X-factor Shuma air movement!
Brought a tear to my eye. In fact, I’m tempted to read up on Fortuneman’s Shuma/Nemesis tech post
I’m thinking on a Nemesis Team Besides of the Arthur one (always soulsearching lol)
The Arthur one is: Nemesis (Rocket)/Hulk (AA Gamma Charge)/Arthur (Daggers)
The gameplan here is pretty obvious: Zone with Nem and daggers, damaging dhc with hulk, and Arthur to clean house with lvl 3 Xfactor and chipping like a boss!. Arthur plays a huge roll in this team: as an assist (projectiles for nem and hulk) and as the good anchor he is.
The other team, which it doesn’t involve my fav char (Arthur) but I think it should be GOOD:
Trish (low voltage)/Nemesis (Rocket)/ Wesker (Gun shot)
The gameplan: Zone with trish, using rocket if neccesary. When landed a hit, full combo then Round Harvest to setup umblockables with the wesker assist. Wesker should help A LOT both Trish and Nemesis, both benefits from an OTG assist for extending combos, and i cant think of anythig better than Wesker (and we know how good is dark wesker ). DHC is pretty good too.
PRobably rocket can help Trish get in to land a hit, have to hit the lab to see that.
Which one of this two teams do you like the most?, or which one seems more effective?