Need some good and deep Strider/Doom Info

again, dimwitted people don’t bother understanding the post and instead talk about something else. Again, his post before for playing against cyc was crap. but you guys just like to change the subject. maybe if you guys weren’t so dumb…but oh well. just ignore points all together.

lol look at what specifically I’m putting down anyway. the post. yes there was some flaming in there, but for said reasons of ignorance and regular dumb-assery. again LOL

neither of you have posted anything useful yet either.

LOL I wonder how many times the point will be ignored/not understood but they’ll talk about something else entirely

general or not, it was pretty much pointless then. shoult, your question was basically a rhetorical question than was it not?

EDIT: lol I LOVE how you guys assume I’m attacking snake’s skills. wow. but I suppose playing marvel well doesn’t always translate to intelligence/comprehension/etc.

continue with your silly posts I guess I wasn’t surprised by a good post from snake. maybe later he will. merdoc’s just a tool/fool

All you are doing is saying my post is crap which is YOUR OPINION because
1.“bait cyke” Is logical no matter how you look at it. Because he’s trying to bait you. If you’re smarted than him, that won’t work and you’ll be baiting him instead.
2.“stay outta the corner” Most people don’t make this a priority, instead, they find themselves in the corner.
3.“don’t mash assist” People panic and mash out assist, sounds stupid on paper, but it happens alot in a real match. Of course you’ve never been in a real match and you are a paper player.
4.“just play, try not to get hit” Players useually go balls out when against other teams and don’t mind trading hits, in this case you don’t want to trade hits, because it’s at your disadvantage.
5.“something” Something is much more useful than your trash talk. You suck, you have no credentials to be criticizing my post in the way you do. Ask questions and learn something before coming out and looking like a total scrub. I’ve never seen you on the Strider boards and you have no experience with this team like I do, so merdoc is right when he says “who are you” because no one knows you here and you’re not a Strider/Sent/Doom player with experience. You’re just a paper player making a fool of himself vs me who actually has experience playing top player Sent/Cykes and succeeding against them. Scrubs these days…

If you’re asking about that sent\doom vs sent\cyke, nah, I actually meant that :rofl:. I was willing to take any information from any scrub or proven player. I’m going to take something useful from every post I read regarding something I need help with even if its something I know.

Whats useful and whats not is going to vary player to player. It all depends on what you to take with you from a players response.

obviously people don’t always do it, but obviously it’s logical. there was no point to the post. you’re following posts after were moe crappy because that’s when it was seen how you may play well, but still can’t comprehend posts. haha trash talk? just trash talk about posts. but you still don’t understand.

the rest of your post is irrelevant. again, marvel skills does not= general intelligence. I saw a question being asked, and mentioned that your post could have been better. good thing I know not to ask you questions because you won’t be able to answer them well. but perhaps that was not the usual case. you’re still looking the fool sad to say.

again, go on and keep assuming I’m dissing for something when it is actually something else entirely I’m scrutinizing. until then you can’t even be taken seriously. still no good informative post from you about the question shoult posed, or about this in general.

commence assumptions

agreed, but those general tips I don’t really consider tips. just, again obvious. really it’s general marvel info. not relating to doom vs cyc at all. it basically defeats the point.

I’d be glad to listen to Snake too, but so far it’s been nadda…

AGAIN: your recent posts snake have been irrelevant. I was talking about the posts that it could’ve been better. But I should’ve seen where your posts would’ve headed with the whole “counters” spiel. your changing the subject entirely. perhaps you don’t even want to notice what was said about your post. maybe just getting distracted. either way, maybe you’ll understand now? surprise me…

Yeah, tool/fool, okay, I’m just pointing out that SNAKE WAS posting something useful until you came and tryed to descredit it. I simply said the truth, you suck and you don’t know what you’re talking about. Plain and simple. I’m not saying you’re attacking SNAKE’s skills, all I’m saying is he’s a better player than you. Play him and see for yourself how Sent/Doom deals with Sent/Cyke. Besides, he is a Sent/Doom player, and uh, you’re not idiot. I understand his point, and not yours, because you have no point. You’re just putting down other peoples points.

  1. merdoc, I’m not even taking you seriously. your whole post was not read, you’re not snake’s mother. but if you still want to try and defend him (which there is really nothing to defend) go right ahead. no one cares

  2. you’re confusing “descredit” with perhaps “scrutinize”. granted I did it harshly, but I feel it was deserved…and frankly it’s the internet, it should not have been taken that seriously (though that was only because you both started assuming. making an ass out of yourselves). descredit would’ve have been akin to saying snakes sucks, thus the post is pointless. but it was just about the post, that regardless of how good he is or whatever, the post (read: no relation to skills at all) could’ve been better.

Talk about irrelevant posts. Here you are trying to be smart. How are they irrelevant? I posted explaining the importance of the things you need to watch out for. Let people who come in the thread decide if the stuff I said don’t work. Because you can’t honestly say it doesn’t, that would be your opinion. And yes, marvel is all about intelligents, because in a way, you have to outsmart your opponent.
I posted saying that if you fight Sent/Cyke with Sent/Doom believing it is a counter, you won’t get far. Because relying on tricks and theories of counter teams leaves you limiting yourself as a player and you’re putting yourself in a situation where you think you’re beaten. Of course you didn’t ask why I would say that and didn’t understand what was going on. I post what I post because I am trying to share what makes me win with other players and I got a bit offended because you’re discrediting what works for me with this team, a person who uses this team mainstream like myself would see that. This is why Shoult said he understood what I was talking about. Again. In your opinion they’re no good, you’re not a Clockw0rk player.

commence assumptions

your right, this is the internet but @ the same time this is also marvel. It gets too hype even online :rofl:

Right, uh, saying "you’re “lol” and your post is irrelevant is, to me attacking Snakes’s skills. And saying someone’s beliefs are nonsense seems like you’re really putting him down. And again, I am only defending him because I believe what he says is true. Looks like you’re assuming too much dick head. He has the experience, you don’t, plain and simple. jesus… people just don’t listlen.

well obviously this whole spiel is a bunch of irrelevant posts now by you and me both.

the importance of those things “to watch out for”, i guess IMO, are pretty damn obvious. just about any marvel player knows this. that stuff is always important, should always be watched out for, and is not specific to any matchup. I suppose it’s useful to beginner players, but I did not think this was the place for that.

well yes marvel is about intelligence, but a different intelligence entirely.

again, on “counters”

  1. I believe there are counters, though the exact definition may get lost in translation
  2. I feel that it doesn’t make players worse, them getting worse is all on account of themselves, not the fact of “counters”
  3. I feel it actually makes you a better player (though refer to #2, depends on the player and if they decide to let it hold them back) because when people realize that “stuff” beats other “stuff” marvel, they have to become a better player, yes use certain strats (gimmicks?) for matchups, but ultimately step up their game. again, I use teams against plenty of bad matchups (low tiers included) but realizing these thing can make you a better player.
  4. (this if probably for J360) because he mentioned low tiers don’t count in the no counters rule. but I feel that’s not right. they are in the game and though they may be countered much more than top tiers, it’s still counters…and if it exists in the game, it should be universal. I don’t feel you can simply exlude that.

I understand entirely btw

“what works for me with this team” again, I feel that it had nothing to do with the team per-se but it was just general knowledge that I feel every marvel player already knows, and if they don’t, shouldn’t be in such a specific thread like this anyway.

anywho, I liked this post much better than the previous spam, which I didn’t want to but agree that I took part in posting.

realize that I never discredited your posts. I may have challenged them, albeit harshly, but this time I am not

Merdoc: your post was still not taken seriously at all, seeing as you still couldn’t comprehend anything, even partly. but still pointlessly defend Snake, he doesn’t need it and there is really nothing to defend. but I suppose that’s not my decision

shoult: yeah lol, but it got “hype” over assumptions. but really, am I so wrong in beleiving that the post was general knowledge that doesn’t pertain to any matchup?

The only thing I can say is to go play sent\doom vs sent\cyke that know what they’re doing against you. The things snake mentioned on what to do, you will find yourself doing the complete opposite in no time easy.

ssd doesn’t have proper team chemistry so to truly understand where your advantages are is very important and you do this by properly applying basics WHILE not getting hit. I know it sounds basics as fuck but its 100x harder to do physically than typing it out.

While typing out my strider posts, I always brought up basic facts that were plain as day. Any dumbass could of figured it out but its when you apply proper basics to specific strategy that the actual strategy becomes useful.

I once posted a way to properly stop mando from coming out against s\d pretty clean but I had to mention the fact that doom beats capcom in close. Then with that being said, you base your trap rotations off in close trap reps to prevent mando from popping out and stopping strider. So if your opponent is mashing something out, doom stops him, strider activates, and now strider has a shot for some assist damage.

The whole strategy falls apart w\o knowing the basic concept of where doom beats capcom @ and it just isn’t one spot. Theres actually a wide spectrum for doom to beat capcom so that type of trap rotation has a window of doom length to properly work.

Well, I guess it’s a difference of opinion then. I just wanted to throw out some general tips for people to keep in mind while playing. Some people play off of instinct more than intelligence, which I feel is wrong. It’s just a reminder of the basics. I feel it’s all in the head. Like for example if I’m playing MSP and I keep losing to santhrax, I find it better to figure out a way to beat the santhrax player with MSP instead of switching to Scrub or something else to try and beat if because I wasn’t able to do it with that team. I would rather learn the match up. That’s the best way in my opinion to get stronger. I like playing a team that gets “countered” when ever I go to the arcade. Like for example, when ever I play against an MSP, I pick ROW, whenever I play against Santhrax, I pick MSP and etc. I feel learning a difficult match up eliminates such things as counters because I learned to play differently and got a step ahead. When you have alot of options to work with, I feel you can do more than what the characters are meant to do. Like for example, I play rushdown cable sometimes against Magneto, I dash in jab pressure because my c.lp is surprisingly quick and hit’s off guard, plus, it causes people to hesitate and you know magneto is a very offensive character, so if his offense is stopped, it’s confusing to the player.

Maybe I cleared some things up about my opinions…

EDIT: Shoult hit the spot. People turn into instinctive players and forget the basics when they’re in a struggled situation. Much easier typed than done, but people need to keep reminding themselves about those things in a match up that has to be played differently.

@shoult: again, I understand it entirely. but the post mentioning it doesn’t change the fact that I know these things should be done, and really is always kept in mind. don’t get me wrong, it’s good info, but I don’t feel it is for a Strider/Doom thread or cyc vs. doom question

I actually do play clockwork every so often. and Sent/doom a lot (like for IM/sent/doom). (im not really a Capcom player, and only usually have Sent/cyc with my Mag/sent/cyc team) and trust me, we have great cyc users here. When cyc gets picked I realize that I can’t take it as easy as I was vs other teams (if I was taking it easy at all) because face it, strider/doom (sent too) is great, and wonderful at stopping/stuffing/making life hard (lol) for plenty of things (especially magz and cablez). but people specifically counter pick cyc against me and then I know that I can’t take it too easy like before lol…if I was at all

@Snake: hmm well when you say elminates counters, I still feel that they are still present if they were there to begin with.

again that’s what I do too. people may counter pick me, but I rarely if ever do it. usually I pick what gets countered, and in turn get better. I see where some people are coming from saying it makes people weaker, when they counter pick. but that to me is the person and not the fact or theory of counters. people sure love santhrax, so what, my msp(chun li, IM, ugh anakaris…)has gotten better due to it. some people refuse to do anything but counterpick, I’ve been refusing to pick santhrax or other counter teams.

instinct and intelligence are both important, as long as instinct is the good kind I.E. experience. too much of one or the other IMO is bad.

I understand where you guys are coming from with “basics” really it was sort of assumed originally, but a post won’t make me remember it any more or less when I actually get down and dirty.

but ah well.

This is a lesson learned from many, many, many loses. Instead of playing smart, I try to go super saiyain because these bitches don’t know my power level :rofl:. Play faster, hit the buttons harder, land the hot shit combos, unorthodox CH’s, side step activation tricks, the dope shit that usually gets you killed etc…

Even though playing like that could possibly get you a win and maybe a few ooooh’s from the crowd, taking it slow and playing smart is 100x easier to do and you don’t have to worry about fucking up.

When I have Strider I find it really easy to fight against Cyke because I can cross him up (unlike psyloke and CapCom) so I just play pseudo trap from time to time and orb the shi’t out of him when they try to call him out. Most Cyke users mash him out while they’re getting trapped so they can get away. This is where the pseudo trap comes in. leaving a gap in your trap purposely to get cyke out and punish him with orbs, bomb, etc. or you can bait a double snap in the same fashion. Sent/Cyke vs Sent/Doom is hard to explain because it’s more of you have to learn fighting it your own way. For example, angles where cyke can hit, advantages vs disadvantages Doom has against cyke assist, what distance to stay at in what situation. Like It’s either I’m above the other Sent trying to cross up cycke while I’m calling Doom, or I’m playing airplane games with him at a distance. I’d call out Doom far away from him, then unfly, he’ll come I HK drones to trade with him, sj, stay above him. I don’t know, like I said, just some of the stuff that works for me…

:looney:

the sign of a true strider player. You can’t teach those gapped setups!!! doing them on accident is one thing but doing them on purpose to gain advantage is another.

edit: keep that sent\doom knowledge flowing.

ok, well I can say I appreciate this post much more.

Sent/doom is probably the only sent duo I like. I like that you can lockdown a little longer with rocks (sorta like magz/doom or less unconventional IM/doom) you lock em down and do your thang in that situation. Doom is great to “plant” and then get on with high/low/mixup/whatever game plan. not so much used for a quick defense. you sort of have to have some good blocking/zoning/getting in skills. unless you use him defensively in a keep away squad like cable/doom.

off topic but really, mag/doom is pretty great and not used much. realistically you can get a 5 fierce (or any flying screen) plant doom and square jump over. lasts longer than tron, is more blockstun than tron (no assist calling) and you basically do your high-lows, rom, flying screen repeat. very possible for rape (and I have raped with it)

Guess Listening Works, anyways good shit postin them smart stuffs.:sweat:

lol wtf guys going back and forth in a day!

What’s up w/ Sentinel/Tron vs. Cable/Capcom or Cykes :frowning:
I’m having a hard time using my Sentinel vs. Cable

I noticed unfly xx fly has to be mastered fast and quick. Any hit Cable blocks, he’ll move back, giving him a chance to shoot your ass down.

I don’t post a lot of videos up nor mention any, but these videos of Justin vs. Carlos [team scrub] ARE AWESOME. Justin starts Sentinel first almost all the time vs. Carlos’ Cable. FYI, the Cable can AHVB in between HSF so yeah good match vids.

Predicting Cable’s sj HP is always nice to combo off of!

http://www.youtube.com/user/MeiaLuaVideos

Sooner or later I’m going to start using fly xx unfly hit xx fly instead of regular fly hit xx unfly xx fly against Cable. ONLY WAY TO GO! It gives Sentinel that descend he needs to close the gap of Cable getting too far away

Sentinel lives best if you’re above Cable but watch out for his sj. LP.
The reason why I mentioned Sentinel is because… Strider can’t do all the work 24/7.

I think every Strider player should really beef up their Sentinel to the point it’s as good as their Strider.

Fly xx unfly techniques need be HOT. My Sent is going to be as hot as Finesse or Sanford BELIEVE IT!

There should be a memorial Sentinel combo that every Strider/Sent/Doom player can do.

It should involved Sent and Strider assist of some kind :slight_smile:

how much bar is enough bar?

From the beginning of the round, your main goal on ssd is to fight as well as attack properly to build bar. This includes zoning and the like. Now being fully loaded is what you should aim for but this isn’t always a possibility. So how much bar is enough bar to start off? the answer is depended upon how much you understand about building bar with strider as well as attacking and maintaining trap. The patterns I know of do 80% per trap rep. This means I only need 20% of meter building outside of trapping to get a bar so for me, I only need 2.5 bars to actually get started with strider and maintain pressure constantly so my sentinel is only looking to build 1.5 bars. By gaining the minimal amount of bar I need immediately or carefully, everything else is a bonus because I’m able of turning so little into a lot so this type of strategy is a bit more steady mentally. You don’t need sentinel to build 3 or 4 bars to be truly effective. Some games, just sent building 1 bar is enough to come in with if you’re really careful and are able to recognize free and not free mini trap reps outside of dumping bar.
**
screen freeze activation tricks:**

This is something I’ve been working on for the better part of a year. Whenever you activate, the screen pauses for the super flash aka screen freeze. When you put projectiles in the proper spaces near the opponent, these screen freezes cause unblockable projectiles to hit. Really devastating with the bomb and screen freezes animals can save your life.

Now using his point play to get some things to happen works but there are a few other layers to this. You can also screen freeze activate for your assists to essentially do the same thing. However, it seems like this screen freeze vs certain angles of attack give doom extra priority or something is speeding up instantly in the doom rocks giving you a an angle doom wouldn’t usually win @ for a free pin + options.

Another layer to this trick is to use your screen freeze to change your trap timing. It creates weird guard cancel holes for free easy relayer patterns but the trick to using this properly is to break down guard cancel attempts and see how your assists and how your screen freeze activation is interacting w\ the point’s options. You can usually notice when it works because it looks wrong but you maintained a tight trap rep.
**
more to trap than just trapping:**

The core of this team is to force pressure by using strider’s orbs some way. When you pair strider with doom, your offensive pressure is chip damage. So you got your trap going on but there are multiple ways of trapping someone. You can activate and chip early which creates different ending options. You can activate and chip late allowing for a reactivation into another trap rep repeatedly and so on.

So is there a wrong way to trap? and the answer is yes. By using your pressure the wrong way, you don’t maximize every trap rep to its potential. Simply dumping bar to trap someone won’t kill them based on chip damage alone. Think about it. Every trap rep mid screen only does 10-15% chip or a little more depending on what you know. So add that up and consistently speaking its around 10 bars midscreen to kill 1 character. So chipping someone to death won’t exactly kill them if they block everything and just take the chip.

Essentially, there are only 2 types of traps with strider. 1, trap and trap again ala clockw0rk style. 2, gapped setups. Gapped setups is a very deep strategy that is very hard to break down if you know when and where to try these. When you do traps back to back and you’re successful @ this, you’ll realize that the opponent is hitting the assist button a lot. They want you to stop what you’re doing so they can move. So what you want to do is combine 2 of these strategies to form 1 strategy. By trapping someone repeatedly, you force them eventually call there assists @ the end of your trap patterns are where your retrap series begins. When you have this instilled into your opponent, this is where the 2nd strategy, gapped setups, come into play. By trapping someone 2 times, you can pretty much assume that they will try a 3rd time to get out because they’ve lose 30% blocking. No one is going to deal with that because its stupid. So on that 3rd time, go for a gapped setup and take a shot @ the helper. It doesn’t have to be the 3rd time, it can be the 2nd or fourth or 5th. Whenever you feel like your opponent is respecting your traps.

When you go for gapped setups, you can position yourself properly to allow the assist to pop out but not hit strider so this gives him a gapped setup but not enough time to get away from him.

Another + to combining these 2 strategies is that it creates 2 very different guard cancel trees. If you take early orb for chip, you create a much different hole than if you do late doom calls for repeated trap reps. The one down side to this anti guard cancel strategy is that if you take an early doom chip, your reposition string goes into many, many options. So picking the right one or figuring out the all the options can take a while but imo, its really worth learning.

Its tricky and it can back fire but if you break strider\doom down a piece of paper, having more than 30 bars is never an option which is the amount of bar strider needs to take out a whole team. There has to be a substitute strategy for when you don’t have bar and it needs to be effective.

Also maximizing 50\50 trap prevents strider from having to build so much bar. Trap, 50\50 during trap, if it hits, 50\50 reactivation pattern.