Necro for Scrubs, by a Scrub

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
41

Sorry for late response.

The main deal with Necro is that you usually want to be an enigma as you play. You want to frustrate ur opponent to the point where they’re like…“wtf is going on!!!” So after all resets, doing mixup really pisses your opponent off. Since in the corner most people dont quick roll, they can think a bit and collect themselves. But if you’re constantly making them guess, then the pressure is ridiculous. Here’s some examples:

I’ve done all of these so I know they work.

Ie: VS Hugo:

In the corner: c. lk -> lp tornado hook -> db. hp * 3 -> b. mk(reset) -> walkup a step, then walk back -> db + hp * 6

(Works because it fools him into thinking you’re walking up into throw range and then u walk out and get a free db + hp combo.)

OR

In the corner: c. lk -> lp tornado hook -> db. hp * 3 -> b. mk(reset) -> walkup during the reset -> lp. flying viper

(This one works because I bait Hugo into doing a 360 by walking up during the reset and then I jump in the air with lp viper and get a knock down. Simultaneously, if he blocks low from fear of db + hp, he catches an overhead).

Without resets your main option is basically, wait for him to get up and then GUESS. I dont like guessing. I like to make my opponents guess :rofl:. Just my personal preference.

Funny Fact Related to This: I corner threw a pro player 4 times in a row by just doing Throw -> s. mp then walkup and repeat. On the 4th time I just stun comboed and won. I think he still hates me for that :3

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bump =(

43

great thread man. i think after our matches you improved dramatically, like to the point where i was using my mvc2 blocking skills and reaction techs were failing. very good shit.

if a mod sees this, this thread should definitely be stickied. :tup:.

44

K added some new strats into the main.

45

This stuff always works me because I can never react to it quick enough. I need to work on tech throws.

Anyways. I just started picking up Necro. He’s really fun to use. I never found him interesting until I started watching videos of Sugiyama’s Necro.

This thread has been really useful so far for me. And I remember fighting Blaq’s Necro on Kaillera, and him kicking my ass. :rofl: We’ll have to play again sometime. I want to learn some Necro stuff from you.

46

i don’t like talk so much about set ups and mix ups because i think you can understand this more watching and playing

if opponent are in the ground you can do a lot of good stuffs… try positioning necro around the distance of opponent Throw …from this distance you are safe :

1-you can parry (punish a weak up shoryuken or a c.tech)
2- you can do a meaty (like c.short, b.strong, jab tornado hook,j.roundhouse drill cross up uoh…etc)
3-you can change your timing (make moves in cut-times)
4-you can walk around the distance waiting for opponent throw and punish if they do this
5-you can walk and do kara-throw
6-you can walk in the opponent range throw and jump > drill kick , b.dash >sa3 or make a b.fierce
7- you can make whiff moves

you can mix up all only you need is positioning necro in this distance…and this not only work in weak up work well in resets , after bock/hit moves, after opponent jumps(walking under they jump or walking back before he land ) …etc

47

If you do a j. rh, does the hitstun actually allow you to backdash in time? And if they throw after your j. rh does the b. HP dodge the throw attempt or do you tget thrown? Because I do meaty j. rh on enemy wakeup a lot and I tend to get thrown if I try to do anything else after it.

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if the opponent is smart… then they will usually grab after that. 7/10 times i do that i get grabbed. not that im dumb, it is just that ppl know to grab necro after that.

buuuuuuuuuuuuuut… what i know does work after that is UOH, but that gets powned by shotos.

for your bigger questoin blaq:

now here is the thing with me. my meaty j. rh means that i do it right in their face (sorta like his knee is past the head) and you can combo SAI,III in. but the back dash can be cr. mk vs shotos, chun, and twins into a deadly SA combo or normal BNB combo.

but when i want to dash back for EX serpant spike (qcb p), s. mp xx SAI,II, or bait I do i mid j. rh (the head of opponet is between knee and ankle and nothing else but that) and decide from there what i should do.

for my far j. rh, i hope they dont pary and do a poke into rushdown. but i dont do that cause necro can get owned vs a parry happy opponent.

about keeping necro in bait, outside grab range, or in close range… i 60/40 that cause necro can get powned vs shotos, chun, twins, ibuki, sometimes makoto if the opponent knows how to work necro off his mixup. so my words of advice comming from everday vs japanese players, 60-40 the close range fighting unless you are against a dumb player or someone that doesn’t parry at all (which would not be a good 3s player in any means what so ever)

if anyone finds this useful or wants more of what i have to say, post up and i will give a more detailed description on my style of necro… but so far, i think that the key speakers of this thread are coreografo and blaq because i built alot of my necro based on your guy’s advise. but no doubt i would like to battle you guys… come to japan and we see whats up

[note] i will be back in california (SVGL, newpark mall TILT, and DeVry Fremont) to beat the shit out of all the ppl i have before and alot more with all the training i have done i japan. so if you see me, come on and waste your money

49

is all about the time and distance of the game …time of the game is really hard of understand … is the “rhythm of the fight”. i can’t help you to much about this because you need feel but depends of what happen in the fight (he eat a damaging move ,if he are very near of stun/chipp damage dead, if you are in a positioning game , if he wait other moves etc etc) … i do some hell risk moves depending the rhythm of the match…and opponent fall in this set ups.

for example:
when fight are very especific rhythm of match (very fast) … i do some times jump near>b.dash>sa3 or jumping again with a round house drill kick (punish they grabs)
and other example when the rhythm of match slow i try not make moves in weak ups and reset because opponent reaction time is very small … i go for moves in cut times (times when if you do moves this moves are very hard of predict) or i do nothing

50

OOPS: I just remembered that I took this comment from the other 2-page Necro thread.
I haven’t actually checked yet, but can’t db + hp be blocked high or low; like Dudley’s cr. lp or Alex’s cr. mp? It certainly looks like 1 of those “universal-parry” normals (for lack of a better term to explain a move you can parry, either direction).

'Also, if this is the closest to a Necro scrubs thread, then I have an appropriate question: which super is best overall? I prefer Magnetic Storm for ease of use, but perhaps Electric Snake is better usually? No one seems to pick MS these days (even Pino uses ES).
Here’s what I’ve gathered so far for each super:
Electric Snake: good stun, and esp. with extra hits afterwards in the corner; free ambiguous cross-up afterwards in most cases; relatively safe if blocked; more bar for EX; easier to hit-confirm after cancelled Tornado Hook combos and yet w/ less damage scaling…
Magnetic Storm: higher damage; higher priority; good speed (fewer frames?) so it can be used to counter some pokes on reaction and scare aggressive players; air resets after drill kicks or j. back/toward mp, for instance; corner juggles; anti-air (albeit usually fewer hits connect, so reduced damage, but keeps opponents grounded more)

Both supers seem to build fast too, so this point is specifically just a comparison. I’m not sure if this is because he often gets block strings off opponents; because he can whiff fast normals quite safely; because his range allows him to come into contact with blocking opponents with a low risk of retaliation; or just some combination of all of this.

51

I commented on what super to pick in the other thread, but just to clarify again: The usefulness of SA3 is ridiculous. Plus sa3 doesn’t actually do a low amount of damage or anything. Try doing b+hk -> c. lk xx sa3 and you’ll see what I mean xD.

Most Necro BNB combos ie:
b+ mk x mp tornado hook xx sa3,
b. lk -> s. mp xx sa3,
b+mp xx sa3,

Are really useful when you use sa3 because of the stun t hey give almost for free. Thenw hen they’re down, you can dashup and pluck some more stun out of their life. When stunned, you get a free combo and more damage. After corner sa3 vs almost all characters, you can juggle. If you practice, you can also turn corner sa3’s that stun/almost stun into free corner combos. These keep stun for the whole juggle until they land and wake up. After which you can get another free combo while they’re stunned. SA3 is too good! But some chars are hard to stun and its better to dmg them instead.

I personally use SA3 vs everyone except the Twins, Oro, Dudley, Ibuki and Chun. Twins because it can punish their dive kicks. Oro because his stun bar is huuuuuuuuuuuuge. Same reason for Dudley. Ibuki takes a lot of damage and is very mobile, so you want every hit to count. Thats why I SA1 her. I do it for Chun also because a lot of good options for sa3 whiff on her pretty often(ie. b. lk -> s. mp). Or she’ll flat out go under a lot of your moves(c. mp from chun goes UNDER b. mp >.>) So I end up using b. mk xx sa1 on her as an alternative.
Also since she’s annoying as hell, I want to do, again, as much damage as possible. Vs Chun is personal pref though, a lot of people pick diff supers in this matchup, so my way isnt necessarily right. I dont use sa1 on hugo despite the big stun bar because I can juggle his ass all day when I get the chance, although people say its smarter to just play keep away with your long limbs and sa1. But iono personal pref again.

Hope that helps.

52

I’m caught up on everything you said, and thanks for the input. I suppose most of the time, the choice of super is character-specific, and if I’m having trouble connecting ES on opponents in general, I just have a bad set-up/bad Necro in general. MS DOES seem like a scrubby super. Pino made me decide that it’s worth using, but I also felt it’s good against the twins’ dive kick. I often get to punish ppl w/ MS as a sort of delayed wake-up, or UOH into super. I’ll try out ES in the arcade tomorrow and see how I do!

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bump for my video reference.

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I personally LOVE more good Necro match vids all the time lol. I found vids of some players from Europe and the Philippines (sp) and I was actually VERY impressed with the aggressive play and execution. I REALLY have trouble w/ Chun, and more than Makoto or even Yun right now. I have little experience w/ Yangs, so I’m not focusing too much on that match-up for now. Urien still drives me NUTS in general (regardless of the character I use against him), and I’m talkin’, GOOD Uriens from the famous ffa (1-2 mistakes per round = DEATH too often).

55

wake up electric snake seems to work for some

56

chun: dont do any standing pokes cause she punishes that. jump in parry/grab more than j.hp or j.hk and stick to SAI. just out smart her by some occasional BnB combos and dont get in the corner.

twins: SAI for the win. parry the dive kicks and b.mp to counter. jump back + mp/hp/hk rather than jump in and attack. what i like to do is dash under them when they jump so when they dive kick you got a free combo/grab. [in corner with no escape possibilities] j.hp or SAI

urien: i love fuckin this guy up. hp his fire balls with timing of course. dive kick in corners, and utalize that down parry for his long ass legs. what i like to do that risks your health, but puts him down is SAIII right when he does his fireball, you of course eat it, but putting that stun gauge up helps out alot.

just some lil tactics i use to go up agianst them. might work for some of you guys…

57

Heh heh, thanks for the input. I also have thought of ESing Urien’s fireballs (too bad he crouches to do it cos then it’s crouch damage).

I think drill kicks are pretty safe against Chun-- even when she parries them–as long as you recover before reaching the ground. Is whiffing back + lk viable against her? It seems like you can catch her on her way up, while she’s jumping back, w/ a db + hp. Pino does this to Yun players who are jumping back after doing a whiffed or blocked dive kick.

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if you could stun urien or make him close to stun is what you want to concentrate on. you eat it, but one fireball shouldnt effect you that much. eat one fireball to get a stun combo in the corner or do some decent damage is worth it for me.

if chun parries you, she gets a free hit 90% of the time i would say. her pokes hurt and SA cancels could be executed easily. about the wiffing b.lk… havent tried it so i dunno. i will try that next time i have an oppertunity. but for pino’s tactics… you have to be on key for all that shit. pino isn’t known for being the best in 3s, he is know for the most fuckin ruthless Necro in the 3s world. so to pull off alot of stuff he does is really difficult. that is his style of necro, so he does it naturally. if you could pull off using his stlye, you could dominate alot of ppl. but try some of his moves and apply it to your style for best results.

59

It seems that you really have to get a lead against Yun and Chun when Necro, but Chun right now is…YIIIIIIIIGH: so tough (maybe tougher than for Dudley, since he can usually do more damage in the same situations). I’ve been studying Necro-Chun matches, and the Necro is VERY evasive and afraid to attack her! The Necro players try to keep her at a distance and turtle a lot (esp. when she has super), but her super isn’t what scares me as much: just trying to get in a hit w/o trading (cos it’d be in her favor) is TOUGH. Her defense is also kinda crappy so if I knock her down, maybe I can get her to do wake-up EX sbk and block it to waste her meter: I don’t recall anyone saying he can reverse it on block though (I’ll check). I try to pressure her into the corner w/ drill kicks. It seems hk drills are best cos their reach is a bit obscure so you can catch her w/ them w/ less chance of getting parried, and a faster rate of recovery/landing. Throw set-ups seem more important than EVER, and not just to try to corner her.
Do you recommend SAI cos you want to damage her as badly as possible each time you hit her, for the priority, for the resets or corner juggles, or some combo (combination, I mean)? 'Maybe it’s just cos I SUCK w/ SAIII, but when I get my opponent in the corner, it seems easier to catch my opponents w/ a juggle into SAI instead of trying to stun them.
My Necro needs SO much work, yet I enjoy his style SO much right now that I don’t want to focus on anyone else right now (except to learn their weaknesses better!)…

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for SAI, easy combo in that you can easily pull is:
c.lk hcf.lp xx SAI
and bam you got it. especially for faster chars when that quicker, fast reaction combo comes in handy when poking isnt doing the job. the reason why i use this for chun is beacause one, if she does thoes shitty jump ins of hers, bam you got her and two, if she happens to block it, DO NOT press buttons (so the SA ends quicker/less hits) you can grab directly after it ends or hope for a low parry and punish.

honestly, if you want to learn necro, SAIII is the necro to learn, hands down. the stun is what makes necro deadly, and SAIII is the best SA of his to use to build stun and rape in the corner. and once you got that down, SAI is no problem at all because necro’s timing is already in your head, and his combos are easier to cancel into SAI (or more simplex i would say). Now when you are a real fuckin necro using hell raiser… SAII, that I am working on and trick ppl and scare them into staying far away from me when i have a full gauge. I havent got that corner stun combo XX SAII, but that is what i am working on. Note that that only works for Hugo I do believe, but learn it cause it is a skill to utalize.

shitty quality but good for getting started
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MlvPiwiKLmY