Necro : especific juggles and comboing

not sure if this has been mentioned but snake fang and tornado hook along with every other half circle move in the game can be done from downback to forward instead.

Ok, coreografo asked me to translate and post this to help people taking more seriously, as his english is somewhat “broken”… so well, here goes.

A few days ago playing with a friend, we discovered a set-up with Ken taking advantage of the fuzzy guard: With Ken, do a very deep cross-up MK or HK, then inmediately jump backwards with HK; this works against tall chars (Urien, Dudley, Q, Hugo)… if they crouch or do low parry, the HK hits them thanks to the fuzzy guard. This also works with Necro, crossing up them then jumping back hitting, but it’s harder to do.

Now, that type of analysis is exactly what at least I do using frame data, the typical example is the mix-up after Necro’s jab Tornado Hook.

Jab TH leaves you at +1, if you realize, Necro’s fastest attack is SA1 (2 frames) and back + jab or short (3 frames); also the throw (2 frames), in 3S jumps have a start up of 3-5 frames, which cause that if you attack with a back + short after a jab TH, the opponent can’t jump and you’ll stuff any of his/her moves that has a start up of more than 2 frames (the space between both moves), except for SRKs and supers. Also, back + short can be continued with another attack (it leaves you at +3) or with a s. Strong (Necro’s typical chain combo) xx SA1/3. This creates a space between you and your opponent, where he/she can counterattack through this gap; usually, because of an issue of distance, your opponents try to jump, where you can stuff them with a c.Strong or they’ll answer with a poke, like crouching forward, which you can punish with a crouching jab xx SA1/3; there are a few other answer options like a EX fireball, and there’s where you use the Flying Viper.

Now, the back + short has the disadvantage that it can be parried high AND low, but there’s another attack that Necro can use in that situation. Back + Strong has a start-up of 4 frames, so it can hit opponents right before they leave the ground if you do it well-timed, and it can only be parried high; if it’s parried, they have 3 frames to hit you before you can cancel the move, most moves have more than 3 frames of start-up which makes very unlikely that you get punished before canceling that move; the characters that can punish that are Ken (MP SRK xx SA3) or Chun (cr.LP xx SA2). Also normal throws can punish that supposing that the opponent does any of these actions inmediately after the parry. Against all other punishments, you can cancel the back + Strong before you get hit with your opponent’s counter with a Flying Viper, which has the property of leaving Necro airborne since the first frame; for example, if Chun parries the b+Strong and tries to do c.MK xx SA2, the c.MK takes a while to come out (6 frames), so if it hits Necro, it does it when he’s airborne, so it hits him and Necro lands on his feet, ready to block and punish the SA2. And the last thing, if your opponent blocks the Flying Viper, for example the EX, this leaves you at +2, which allows for many interesting mix-ups, you can generally try a standing jab (5 frames), leaving a gap of 3 frames, so if he jumps, you get him right before he leaves the ground, or a cr. jab (6 frames) with leaves you at great frame advantage (+4, I’d say), you can also try a jab Denpa to stuff jumps or to whiff it; this is excellent, for example, against Alex, who, when cornered, all his moves go forward and you can smash for a while to see if Alex tries to counterattack and punish with a SA. You also have other more intuitive options, for example after the jab TH, you can parry, if you think your opponent will try to SRK or a SA, or another option depending on distance is to throw a cr.short xx jab Denpa, you have to take a step forward first usually… which makes you lose your frame advanage. To conclude, the good stuff about this is to use your head plus the knowledge about the game to create sequences that you can adapt on the fly depending on the responses of your opponent.

been a while since i came to this thread. nice to hear coreo is still pumpin out info… always wondered what he had up his sleeves.

good job coreo! (and great translation Blueriver]

I wanted to mention a few weird…“mini-combos” I discovered recently, cos I don’t remember reading them.

It seemed that neutral corner grab (headbutt grab), neutral st.mp XX SAI worked on everyone except Elena and Urien. I remembered that you could skip the punch and do the super but only get a few hits and not close enough or w/ too much damage scaling to make it worth doing unless it’s for the guaranteed kill (and/or to get a corner knockdown w/o a chance of tech-rolling afterwards). The NEW part is that I found out you could reset her after the grab w/ a st. wp, and connect SAI, but again, the damage is basically negligible. I’m not sure if this works on Urien, who also seems to fall after the grab, even faster than Elena.

The other small combo is just a 2-hitter and I did it accidentally on Chun. If you do a wp shock (“denpa”) and she jumps and gets hit from behind (as she jumps over you), you can do a b+hp instead of the db+hp elbow to keep her closer to you, though I DOUBT the juggle property of the b+hp is still intact in this case, even though the shock hit was before it and not after it :stuck_out_tongue: I’m not sure if this works on Dudley, Makoto, or anyone else.

how does that (db.hp.x5)work out i cant seem to get it

It’s just timing

Strict, but if you must, double tap it

does necro have any useful option select moves?

sggk in the corner with s.strong
other option select i do is vs yun
yun players do …genei jin after tech your grab o block some far pokings move…i imput sa3 motion and press the punch after the genei jin flash
other option select i do (but is not for necro only) is vs urien…some times urien do shit like strong aegis>dash (head butt/low hit/overhead) i do low parry and grab…if he do t.fierce he get grabed, if he do shit like c.short your parry tach him and grab not comes out…and if he do headbutt he get grabed when he land

Good note, I didnt know about the Urien option select.

Also, which far poke can you super after vs Yun and punish? C. mk? s. mk?

im assuming low jab XX super for both and st. strong for st. forward

im taking my necro out to Cali for the Sunroute cup. wish me luck!!

Wonderful thread. However, as a beginner, I think that woul’d be too hard for me to remember all the Necro juggles while I try to master the basics, so I’d like to know about universal combos that works on every character. So, I assume that, in normal juggles, I can go with:

dB Fierce everywhere;

dB Fierce or lp (if I want to reset) when opponent’s cornered;

mp after a neutral throw when opponent’s cornered;

For the stun combos: I think that after a neutral throw that stuns in the corner, I can do mp on all character. So, I have consistent juggles to do in all situations on all character: what I’d like to know now, is if there are stun combos in the corner that work on every character after a SAIII or lp tornado hook.

Thanks thousands in advice :slight_smile:

^^
Standing strong doesn’t work against Urien after neutral corner grab… nothing does.
Every character can be hit with a db Fierce after jab tornado hook in corner. some characters can be hit with more than that, stun or not.
Shoto: j.tornado hook, db fierce, standing jab
Urien: j. tornado hook, db fierce, standing strong
Hugo/Alex: j. tornado hook, db fierce X3
Makoto/Q(maybe some others): j. tornado hook, db fierce, b strong

Q can be hit w/ lp shock, db+hp after neutral grab in the corner. You can reset Elena w/ st.lp after that grab, too. Doing SAI after this wields a LOT of damage scaling, though. I think you can do db+hp, SAII on Hugo after a lp Tornado Hook in the corner, and maybe make that several db+hps.